263: A Moose Standing in Snow Looking Up at a Helicopter

Episode Transcript

[0:00:21 – 0:00:22] UNKNOWN: Thank you.
[0:00:34 – 0:01:00] Erik: three two one welcome back to the shed it’s tumble home your favorite boundary waters podcast my name is eric joined as always by my fine friend adam hello good evening eric thank you for being here tonight thank you thank you thank you it’s great okay it’s great to be here i’ll accept your thank you
[0:01:01 – 0:01:02] Adam: And I will accept your thank you.
[0:01:03 – 0:01:04] Erik: How interesting.
[0:01:05 – 0:01:06] Adam: Now we’re in a bit of a conundrum.
[0:01:11 – 0:01:15] Adam: Tonight’s episode is sponsored by I have a Mingold open.
[0:01:15 – 0:01:15] Adam: Oh.
[0:01:15 – 0:01:19] Adam: And it looks like Eric has a tropical fruit.
[0:01:19 – 0:01:20] Adam: Tropical fruit.
[0:01:20 – 0:01:25] Erik: Could be anything south of equator adjacent.
[0:01:26 – 0:01:26] Erik: Tropical.
[0:01:27 – 0:01:29] Erik: It’s a Waterloo brand.
[0:01:29 – 0:01:30] Erik: Sparkling.
[0:01:31 – 0:01:31] Adam: Zero calories.
[0:01:34 – 0:01:36] Adam: Both these drinks were mailed to the shed.
[0:01:37 – 0:01:41] Adam: Strangely, they were just laying in a box outside the shed, and it was just a note.
[0:01:41 – 0:01:43] Adam: It said, from Steve Clymer.
[0:01:43 – 0:01:44] SPEAKER_01: Oh, God, no.
[0:01:44 – 0:01:46] Erik: Not Steve Clymer.
[0:01:46 – 0:01:49] Erik: He’s found us out.
[0:01:50 – 0:01:51] Erik: After all these years.
[0:01:51 – 0:01:52] Erik: How did he find us?
[0:01:52 – 0:01:55] Erik: We finally got copyright.
[0:01:55 – 0:01:57] Adam: Humiliate your neighbors.
[0:01:57 – 0:02:00] SPEAKER_01: I don’t think that’s what he said.
[0:02:02 – 0:02:03] Erik: At least he knows.
[0:02:03 – 0:02:06] Erik: He listens enough to know that I’m still off the sauce.
[0:02:06 – 0:02:08] Erik: So thank you, Steve.
[0:02:08 – 0:02:09] Adam: And I’m still on the sauce.
[0:02:09 – 0:02:10] Adam: Always and forever.
[0:02:12 – 0:02:13] Erik: The French crevasse.
[0:02:13 – 0:02:15] Erik: Always and forever crevassing.
[0:02:15 – 0:02:16] Adam: Never have to wash them.
[0:02:16 – 0:02:18] Adam: Always be crevassing.
[0:02:18 – 0:02:19] Adam: Oh my gosh.
[0:02:19 – 0:02:20] Adam: ABC.
[0:02:21 – 0:02:22] Adam: Got kind of like a…
[0:02:23 – 0:02:25] Adam: This is the beginning of a two-part series.
[0:02:26 – 0:02:29] Adam: And it’s more serious and slightly scripted.
[0:02:30 – 0:02:34] Adam: And it’s about damn time we talked about the moose on Tumble Home.
[0:02:34 – 0:02:36] Erik: Kind of crazy that we’ve…
[0:02:36 – 0:02:39] Erik: I mean, they’re a tumble-turny champ.
[0:02:39 – 0:02:40] Erik: Yeah.
[0:02:40 – 0:02:40] Erik: Am I wrong?
[0:02:41 – 0:02:42] Adam: They were.
[0:02:42 – 0:02:56] Erik: And general reason, well, not the general reason, but I would say a large factor in many people’s decision to travel to these parts.
[0:02:56 – 0:03:00] Adam: It’s one of the things that makes the Boundary Waters the park we all love.
[0:03:02 – 0:03:04] Adam: And just northern Minnesota in general.
[0:03:05 – 0:03:07] Adam: Yeah, it’s a special thing having the moose out there.
[0:03:08 – 0:03:08] Erik: Totally.
[0:03:08 – 0:03:15] Erik: When we’re talking campsites and we’re ranking, there’s always a little bit of that wiggle room for the intangibles.
[0:03:15 – 0:03:22] Erik: I feel like the moose is like a huge boost to, you know, if there’s ever a park ranker.
[0:03:22 – 0:03:22] Erik: Right.
[0:03:23 – 0:03:24] Erik: We’re ranking all the parks.
[0:03:24 – 0:03:26] Erik: Moose, that’s a massive intangible.
[0:03:26 – 0:03:29] Adam: It’s quite the enhancement on a trip if you get the moose sighting for sure.
[0:03:30 – 0:03:30] Erik: Oh, yeah.
[0:03:30 – 0:03:30] Erik: Yeah.
[0:03:31 – 0:03:40] Adam: And yeah, some spots are kind of known as like dense moose spots and others are places where like hardly anybody’s seen a moose around here.
[0:03:41 – 0:03:42] Adam: It’s weird how it works like that.
[0:03:42 – 0:03:42] Erik: Yeah.
[0:03:43 – 0:03:43] Adam: Yeah.
[0:03:44 – 0:03:54] Erik: I think I can probably picture exactly like where I was in time for almost all of my moose experiences there.
[0:03:54 – 0:04:01] Adam: Yeah, those are ones that really burn bright and kind of stick around in the old noggin.
[0:04:01 – 0:04:02] Erik: Yeah, totally.
[0:04:02 – 0:04:11] Adam: And unfortunately, which we’ll get to more of this in part two, moose sightings in the Boundary Waters are becoming more and more rare.
[0:04:12 – 0:04:13] Adam: And that is just a rock fact.
[0:04:14 – 0:04:14] Erik: Yeah.
[0:04:15 – 0:04:19] Adam: Before we get into the moose, we do have a bird of the evening tonight.
[0:04:19 – 0:04:21] Adam: An evening bird.
[0:04:21 – 0:04:23] Adam: I did not hear this bird in the evening, though.
[0:04:23 – 0:04:26] Adam: I did hear it in the daytime out by the Cadence River.
[0:04:26 – 0:04:27] Adam: Oh, my.
[0:04:27 – 0:04:31] Adam: This week’s bird of the week here on Tumble Home is the veerie.
[0:04:32 – 0:04:33] Adam: The veerie.
[0:04:33 – 0:04:34] Adam: The veerie.
[0:04:34 – 0:04:35] Adam: The veerie.
[0:04:36 – 0:04:37] Adam: A warm-colored thrush.
[0:04:37 – 0:04:38] Adam: Yeah.
[0:04:39 – 0:04:43] Adam: Beautiful song is a cascading spiral of flute-like notes.
[0:04:44 – 0:04:45] Adam: Yeah, those thrush.
[0:04:45 – 0:04:48] Adam: You know I love me a thrush song, Eric.
[0:04:49 – 0:04:51] Adam: And yeah, I had the veery out back.
[0:04:51 – 0:04:52] Adam: It’s a butte.
[0:04:52 – 0:04:53] Adam: You want to see the picture?
[0:04:54 – 0:04:55] Adam: Oh, veery.
[0:04:55 – 0:04:57] Adam: Little cinnamon brown.
[0:04:57 – 0:04:58] Erik: Veery nice.
[0:04:58 – 0:04:59] Adam: Veery nice.
[0:04:59 – 0:05:05] Adam: It’s a little cinnamon brown tiny bird with the spots and the plumage.
[0:05:06 – 0:05:06] Adam: It’s a butte.
[0:05:07 – 0:05:10] Erik: Kind of looks like a snickerdoodle birdified.
[0:05:10 – 0:05:11] Adam: I love it.
[0:05:11 – 0:05:12] Adam: Yeah, it’s one of my favorites.
[0:05:12 – 0:05:26] Adam: And you don’t hear it often, but throughout the course of the birding season, as us birders would say, very serious birding going on here in Tumble Elm this season.
[0:05:27 – 0:05:30] Adam: And it’s one that is reliably there, though.
[0:05:31 – 0:05:37] Adam: Every once in a while you hear it out back, and it’s a very distinctive electrified warbler call.
[0:05:37 – 0:05:41] Adam: It’s a butte and one of my favorites, so I definitely wanted to give a shout-out to the Vieri.
[0:05:42 – 0:05:44] Erik: The electrified warblers, on to the birdhouse.
[0:05:45 – 0:05:48] Adam: On to the birdhouse, and now on to the moose.
[0:05:49 – 0:05:56] Adam: Alsace-Alsace has indeed won a tumble tournament, Eric, and has captivated Boundary Waters paddlers for generations.
[0:05:57 – 0:05:59] Adam: Yet we have never really talked about the beloved moose on tumbleloom.
[0:06:00 – 0:06:02] Adam: And what’s there to say, really, though?
[0:06:02 – 0:06:09] Adam: Anyone who has seen one in person knows the magical feeling of something so impossibly huge and indifferent and a little bit scary.
[0:06:10 – 0:06:12] Adam: You cannot capture that feeling with words.
[0:06:13 – 0:06:24] Adam: But the moose are disappearing from northern Minnesota, and I wanted to learn more about that, which is how I found out and found myself reading the official government moose survey, which was published in February of 2024.
[0:06:26 – 0:06:26] Erik: Really?
[0:06:27 – 0:06:27] Adam: Yeah.
[0:06:27 – 0:06:33] Adam: They publish it every year, and I got my hands on a digital copy, and it’s available to anybody.
[0:06:33 – 0:06:38] Adam: And we will post that, of course, in the show notes, and I encourage you to go read it.
[0:06:38 – 0:06:38] Adam: It’s a hoot.
[0:06:39 – 0:06:40] Erik: Hot off the press.
[0:06:40 – 0:06:41] Erik: It’s a hoot.
[0:06:42 – 0:06:42] Erik: Every year?
[0:06:44 – 0:06:49] Adam: Well, they generally do the survey every year and they do publish a report.
[0:06:49 – 0:06:56] Adam: I didn’t go back and read the 23 and the 22, but they did miss 2021 due to the pandemic.
[0:06:56 – 0:06:57] Erik: Because of the pandemic.
[0:06:57 – 0:06:58] Erik: I was going to say, what?
[0:06:58 – 0:06:58] Erik: Why?
[0:06:58 – 0:07:00] Adam: But they generally do it every year in the winter.
[0:07:01 – 0:07:16] Adam: The 2024 survey area covered approximately 5,945 square miles, roughly 3.8 million acres, including the entire Boundary Waters Canoe Area wilderness and the adjacent territory in the Superior National Forest.
[0:07:17 – 0:07:17] Adam: Um, um,
[0:07:45 – 0:07:48] Adam: So they’ve been tracking it in the same exact way for quite a while now.
[0:07:49 – 0:07:52] Erik: Were they tracking it before that with just a different system?
[0:07:52 – 0:07:56] Adam: They were, and it’s unreliable, to say the least.
[0:07:56 – 0:08:00] Adam: So they’re really putting a lot of weight in everything from 2005 going forward.
[0:08:00 – 0:08:00] Adam: Wow, that’s good.
[0:08:00 – 0:08:05] Adam: Which also does correspond to the massive drop in moose that we are now seeing up here.
[0:08:05 – 0:08:08] Erik: Because it’s being measured in a way that’s a little bit easier to…
[0:08:08 – 0:08:15] Adam: So, yeah, is it because they’re measuring it more precisely now that they’ve detected a drop, or is there actually less moose?
[0:08:16 – 0:08:16] Adam: What do you think?
[0:08:18 – 0:08:21] Erik: I just anecdotally feel like there’s less moose.
[0:08:22 – 0:08:23] Adam: Yeah, I mean, you’ve been living here.
[0:08:23 – 0:08:25] Erik: Yeah, I’ve been living here.
[0:08:25 – 0:08:25] Erik: You’ve been around.
[0:08:25 – 0:08:37] Erik: I’ve been around, and I feel like the first few summers up here especially were, I mean, it was just a part of driving down to the end of Clearwater Road to get the mail.
[0:08:38 – 0:08:39] Adam: Probably going to see a moose.
[0:08:39 – 0:08:41] Adam: Probably see one almost every time.
[0:08:41 – 0:08:47] Erik: And then you’re dealing with public, and they’re always coming back into the lodge.
[0:08:47 – 0:08:47] Erik: We saw a moose.
[0:08:47 – 0:08:48] Erik: We were over here.
[0:08:48 – 0:08:48] Erik: We saw a moose.
[0:08:48 – 0:08:52] Erik: We were driving down the Lima Mountain Road, and there was a moose and two calves.
[0:08:53 – 0:08:57] Erik: And then towards the last few years, it was like, I don’t know.
[0:08:57 – 0:08:59] Erik: When’s the last time anybody’s seen a moose?
[0:08:59 – 0:09:02] Erik: We would say that more often than, isn’t it crazy?
[0:09:02 – 0:09:05] Erik: The moose walked right through the parking lot, which is what it used to be like.
[0:09:05 – 0:09:07] Erik: Again, these are all just tales.
[0:09:07 – 0:09:08] Erik: Right.
[0:09:08 – 0:09:19] Erik: I don’t know if there’s no science behind that, but my general feeling is it felt like the news that you were hearing did kind of match my reality.
[0:09:20 – 0:09:25] Erik: So, you know, I don’t know if that means anything, but it felt like, yeah, it did feel like something was wrong.
[0:09:26 – 0:09:29] Adam: What’s the closest you ever got into a moose on foot?
[0:09:30 – 0:09:35] Erik: I walked right up behind one walking by myself on the Border Rod Trail in those early years at Clearwater.
[0:09:35 – 0:09:36] Erik: Yeah.
[0:09:36 – 0:09:37] Erik: It was a real windy day.
[0:09:37 – 0:09:44] Erik: I think that the wind was blowing in the direction that I was, you know, upwind.
[0:09:45 – 0:09:49] Erik: And then the wind was like, so there was all kinds of factors.
[0:09:49 – 0:09:51] Erik: That allowed me to basically walk up behind this thing.
[0:09:51 – 0:09:54] Erik: I could have reached out and slapped it in the haunches.
[0:09:55 – 0:09:56] Erik: It was right there.
[0:09:56 – 0:09:57] Erik: Yikes.
[0:09:57 – 0:10:02] Erik: I was as scared as it was because I came around the corner and it was just like the thing just like.
[0:10:02 – 0:10:03] Adam: Could have kicked you pretty good.
[0:10:03 – 0:10:04] Erik: Yeah.
[0:10:04 – 0:10:06] Erik: I came right up behind it and the thing just jolted.
[0:10:06 – 0:10:07] Erik: I’ve never seen anything move so fast.
[0:10:07 – 0:10:08] Erik: Yikes.
[0:10:08 – 0:10:10] Erik: At least I was on foot.
[0:10:10 – 0:10:14] Erik: I was in a canoe one time with two other people when we were on a tiny little creek and
[0:10:17 – 0:10:24] Erik: I think we were trying to get between the… We couldn’t find the portage between Allen and Pillsbury.
[0:10:24 – 0:10:25] Erik: The Allen.
[0:10:25 – 0:10:30] Erik: So we were just kind of forcing our way up this tiny little creek, and then all of a sudden we just heard crashing.
[0:10:31 – 0:10:36] Erik: And it ended up being a mom on one side and babies on the other.
[0:10:36 – 0:10:37] Erik: Oh, that’s not good, Eric.
[0:10:37 – 0:10:39] Erik: It was real hair-raising.
[0:10:39 – 0:10:41] Erik: Like, I don’t know what we’re going to do here.
[0:10:41 – 0:10:44] Erik: Are we going to get stomped in our canoes by a moose right now?
[0:10:44 – 0:10:45] Erik: Mm-hmm.
[0:10:45 – 0:10:55] Erik: That probably sounded a lot closer than it actually was, but I for sure remember the hike where I was just like, oh, that is a large wall of brown hair right in front of me.
[0:10:57 – 0:10:57] Adam: Holy moly.
[0:10:57 – 0:10:58] Erik: You?
[0:11:00 – 0:11:02] Adam: I don’t think I got that close.
[0:11:02 – 0:11:13] Adam: I had one when I was working at Trail Center, and I walked into my cabin, and as soon as I shut the door and looked out the window to the left, there was a moose right there.
[0:11:13 – 0:11:19] Adam: If I had been two seconds later going down the path to my cabin, I would have come face-to-face with it.
[0:11:19 – 0:11:20] Adam: Or it was coming up?
[0:11:20 – 0:11:21] Adam: It was coming up from the lake.
[0:11:22 – 0:11:26] Adam: I was going down the path, walked into my cabin, and went right by and went up the path where I had just come from.
[0:11:26 – 0:11:27] Adam: Crazy.
[0:11:27 – 0:11:29] Adam: Somehow I didn’t see it when we were both outside.
[0:11:29 – 0:11:31] Adam: I didn’t see it until I was in the cabin.
[0:11:31 – 0:11:32] Adam: Just right outside the window.
[0:11:32 – 0:11:32] Adam: Yikes.
[0:11:32 – 0:11:33] Adam: It was really close.
[0:11:33 – 0:11:39] Adam: So that was probably the closest I’ve ever been to one where I actually ended up seeing it.
[0:11:40 – 0:11:46] Adam: And then one time, because the shower building was across the street, you had to go up there to use the staff shower.
[0:11:46 – 0:11:51] Adam: And so it was late night after a long night at work, up there showering and
[0:11:51 – 0:11:54] Adam: I come out of there, and it was like a new moon, just pitch black.
[0:11:54 – 0:12:06] Adam: And I come out, and I start walking, and I’m about to step onto the pavement of the Gunflint Trail, and I heard these like hoof clicks, like hooves coming down the road, and I just froze.
[0:12:07 – 0:12:11] Adam: And I was kind of like out exposed, like I wasn’t near any of the parked cars.
[0:12:11 – 0:12:16] Adam: I just stood there like just a towel around my waist in the night, and it was probably the middle of August.
[0:12:17 – 0:12:25] Adam: And I just watched in, like, the faint light from, like, the light over across the road from trail center was, like, the only source of light.
[0:12:25 – 0:12:26] Adam: It was pretty faint.
[0:12:26 – 0:12:35] Adam: And I just saw this moose go right down the center line of the Gunfoot Trail, click, click, click, click, clip, clop, clip, clop, right past me, like, you know, a car’s length away.
[0:12:35 – 0:12:39] Adam: And I’m just standing there, like, I don’t know if it saw me.
[0:12:39 – 0:12:39] Adam: Yeah.
[0:12:39 – 0:12:41] Adam: Probably did and didn’t care.
[0:12:41 – 0:12:46] Adam: But, yeah, it could easily have, like, veered over and just, you know, snorted on me.
[0:12:46 – 0:12:51] Erik: Just a little late, middle of the Gunflint Trail in the middle of the night snorting.
[0:12:51 – 0:12:54] Adam: That was one where really, because the one with the cabin, I was like, well, I’m already in the cabin.
[0:12:54 – 0:12:55] Adam: Yeah, I’m safe.
[0:12:55 – 0:12:56] Adam: It’s right there, but that was so cool.
[0:12:56 – 0:13:05] Adam: This one was like, I’m out there exposed, and that one actually got me on edge a little because that was like, what are the chances in the middle of the night?
[0:13:06 – 0:13:08] Adam: And why is it walking down the center line of the Gunflint Trail?
[0:13:08 – 0:13:09] Adam: I thought that was pretty comical.
[0:13:09 – 0:13:10] Erik: Clip-clop.
[0:13:11 – 0:13:17] Adam: The official 2024 survey report was authored by John H. Guidaize.
[0:13:17 – 0:13:18] Adam: You think I’m saying that right?
[0:13:19 – 0:13:19] Erik: I think you’re nailing it.
[0:13:20 – 0:13:24] Adam: Guidaize, Minnesota DNR Wildlife Biometrics Group.
[0:13:25 – 0:13:29] Adam: And as I’ve said before, the link to this entire survey report will be in the show notes.
[0:13:30 – 0:13:30] Adam: I highly recommend it.
[0:13:31 – 0:13:32] Adam: It doesn’t take that long to read.
[0:13:32 – 0:13:37] Adam: We will have some of the highlights for you and some of the numbers.
[0:13:37 – 0:13:38] Adam: And what does it all mean?
[0:13:39 – 0:13:41] Adam: That’s the episode.
[0:13:42 – 0:13:45] Adam: Here’s a summation that opens the report.
[0:13:46 – 0:13:57] Adam: We used historical observations of moose habitat information and the extensive field experience of moose managers and researchers to stratify the sampling frame into low, medium, and high-density plots.
[0:13:58 – 0:14:05] Adam: based on how many moose, respectively, would be expected, on average, to be observed in those specific plots.
[0:14:06 – 0:14:11] Adam: To keep the stratification current, we periodically review the stratification scheme about every five years.
[0:14:12 – 0:14:18] Adam: We conducted the last one in October 2018, and the next review will occur later this year.
[0:14:18 – 0:14:18] Adam: That’s 2024, Eric.
[0:14:20 – 0:14:24] Adam: They’re reviewing the stratification as we speak, more than likely.
[0:14:25 – 0:14:31] Adam: Stratification helps to improve precision of the estimates compared to a simple random sample.
[0:14:32 – 0:14:37] Adam: In 2012, we modified the stratification scheme by adding a fourth stratum.
[0:14:38 – 0:14:39] Adam: Oh, my God.
[0:14:39 – 0:14:40] Erik: Not a fourth stratum.
[0:14:40 – 0:14:42] Adam: Kooey dice, you didn’t.
[0:14:43 – 0:14:43] Erik: Oh, I did.
[0:14:44 – 0:14:47] Erik: I can’t even imagine the harrumphing in that board meeting.
[0:14:47 – 0:15:00] Adam: The fourth stratum is referred to as the long-term habitat plots, and these allow them to better understand moose use of disturbed areas and evaluate the effect of forest disturbance on moose density over time.
[0:15:01 – 0:15:09] Adam: Initially, they selected nine plots that have undergone or will undergo significant disturbance by wildfire, prescribed burning, or timber harvest.
[0:15:10 – 0:15:15] Adam: They surveyed the same habitat plots each year in order to better document temporal trends.
[0:15:16 – 0:15:27] Adam: In 2022, we added a 10th habitat plot, Plot 208, part of the 2021 Greenwood Lakes wildfire.
[0:15:27 – 0:15:32] Adam: This year, we surveyed 53 plots, 43 randoms, and 10 habitat plots.
[0:15:33 – 0:15:34] Adam: There you go.
[0:15:35 – 0:15:38] Adam: You asked previously, they’ve always been surveying the moose.
[0:15:39 – 0:15:39] Erik: Sure, yeah.
[0:15:39 – 0:15:44] Adam: They just started doing it in a more precise way starting in 2005.
[0:15:44 – 0:15:47] Adam: Prior to that, they were doing them with fixed-wing aircraft.
[0:15:48 – 0:15:49] Erik: What were they using?
[0:15:49 – 0:15:50] Erik: Helicopters now?
[0:15:50 – 0:15:52] Adam: They are using helicopters now.
[0:15:52 – 0:15:57] Adam: These days, they sample the plots surveyed using helicopters.
[0:15:57 – 0:15:59] Adam: This year, they used three of them.
[0:15:59 – 0:16:02] Adam: A Bell Kiowa, an MD-500E.
[0:16:02 – 0:16:03] Adam: That’s your favorite, I think.
[0:16:04 – 0:16:04] Erik: Yeah.
[0:16:04 – 0:16:06] Erik: I mean, I think, yeah, I’ve got a poster of that on my wall.
[0:16:07 – 0:16:07] Adam: I think you do.
[0:16:07 – 0:16:08] Adam: Yeah, you got it at the book fair.
[0:16:09 – 0:16:09] Erik: Yep.
[0:16:10 – 0:16:10] Erik: Scholastic.
[0:16:11 – 0:16:14] Adam: And also a Bell 206B3.
[0:16:14 – 0:16:14] Adam: That’s a good one.
[0:16:15 – 0:16:26] Adam: They generally fly them 200 to 350 feet above the ground level at 52 to 69 miles per hour on east-west transects spaced roughly 0.3 miles apart.
[0:16:27 – 0:16:28] Adam: It’s oddly specific.
[0:16:28 – 0:16:32] Erik: Yeah, don’t go over 70, otherwise you won’t be able to see the moose.
[0:16:32 – 0:16:33] Adam: The moose all look like bear.
[0:16:34 – 0:16:35] Erik: Yeah, yeah.
[0:16:35 – 0:16:36] Erik: They can tell.
[0:16:36 – 0:16:39] Erik: If you’re flying 70, they can tell.
[0:16:39 – 0:16:42] Adam: They can tell, even if you’re flying at 69.
[0:16:42 – 0:16:43] Adam: Oh, yeah.
[0:16:43 – 0:16:49] Adam: Survey crews consist of a pilot and two observers, one seated behind the pilot.
[0:16:49 – 0:16:51] Adam: I don’t know why they felt the need to give that info.
[0:16:51 – 0:16:52] Adam: Where’s the other one seated?
[0:16:52 – 0:16:55] Adam: They tell you where the one observer is behind the pilot.
[0:16:55 – 0:16:56] Erik: I would assume shotgun?
[0:16:56 – 0:17:19] Adam: the first the other observers sitting on the pilot’s lap actually yes there’s just two seats it’s like a top gun scenario they shouldn’t have three people in these helicopters there no i’m just picturing it like the steve zisu uh helicopter where there’s just the two front seats they’re all sitting in the front seat yeah with their arms like on each other’s shoulders for support yeah it makes i mean that’s how it works in the md 500 at least
[0:17:20 – 0:17:21] Erik: Yeah, those things are doorless.
[0:17:21 – 0:17:23] Erik: You don’t want to go flying out.
[0:17:23 – 0:17:23] Adam: Belt up.
[0:17:24 – 0:17:24] Adam: And it’s for warmth.
[0:17:25 – 0:17:26] Adam: And for warmth.
[0:17:26 – 0:17:27] Adam: Yeah.
[0:17:28 – 0:17:30] Adam: Their findings year to year aren’t so important.
[0:17:30 – 0:17:33] Adam: What matters in this system is long-term trends.
[0:17:34 – 0:17:40] Adam: I have been living here full-time since 2011 and visiting regularly since 2001.
[0:17:40 – 0:17:45] Adam: Anyone that’s been around here during those times knows the moose haven’t been doing well in the boundary waters.
[0:17:46 – 0:17:47] Adam: Good dice.
[0:17:47 – 0:17:59] Adam: We can say with reasonable confidence the moose population in northeast Minnesota declined steeply between 2009 and 2013, and has since more or less stabilized at around 3,700 moose.
[0:18:00 – 0:18:07] Adam: Historic population estimates have moderate levels of sampling uncertainty, which makes it difficult to compare annual estimates with confidence.
[0:18:08 – 0:18:10] Adam: especially when differences are relatively small.
[0:18:10 – 0:18:16] Adam: The strength of the survey is describing trends in population estimates and composition ratios.
[0:18:16 – 0:18:17] Adam: We talked about this earlier.
[0:18:18 – 0:18:22] Adam: They’re really interested in how many calves, cows, and bulls.
[0:18:24 – 0:18:34] Adam: For example, the significant population decline occurring between 2009 and 2013 is readily evident in our time series, even with moderate levels of uncertainty.
[0:18:34 – 0:18:47] Adam: In theory, we could reduce sampling uncertainty by increasing the number of plots surveyed, but we are already pushing the limits of what we can realistically accomplish given staff, equipment, and financial constraints.
[0:18:48 – 0:19:08] Erik: budgets yeah that’s uh more budgets that time frame is right in that uh that horrible uh spring that uh we talked about during the 2012 blowdown that’s right series where lee freelick was talking about if there would have been like another spring like that it would have been like
[0:19:09 – 0:19:32] Adam: horrible for the boreal forest right and that is definitely part of this story is the warming winters and like the extreme heat waves in the summer and just the general lousy levels of snow that you sometimes get yeah whereas that was never a question back in the olden days the olden days you always had snow up your eyeballs when america was great
[0:19:34 – 0:19:34] Erik: That’s right.
[0:19:34 – 0:19:35] Erik: Crickets.
[0:19:36 – 0:19:39] Erik: That’s taking a sip of my mingled.
[0:19:39 – 0:19:43] Adam: I’m doing a lot of reading over here.
[0:19:43 – 0:19:45] Adam: I got to have a lot of sips tonight, Eric.
[0:19:45 – 0:19:47] Erik: Yeah, you got to grease that chute.
[0:19:47 – 0:19:51] Adam: The 2024 survey required 12 days to accomplish.
[0:19:51 – 0:19:52] Erik: Wow, that’s insane.
[0:19:52 – 0:20:03] Adam: They ran that sucker from January 17th to February 2nd, and it did start 10 days later than planned due to marginal snow conditions.
[0:20:04 – 0:20:07] Adam: Generally, they were looking for eight inches of snow cover or more.
[0:20:08 – 0:20:08] Adam: Why?
[0:20:09 – 0:20:11] Adam: It just makes it easier to count them beasts.
[0:20:11 – 0:20:12] Erik: Makes it easier to see them.
[0:20:13 – 0:20:14] Adam: And it makes them slower.
[0:20:14 – 0:20:16] Adam: They can’t hide from the heliacopter.
[0:20:17 – 0:20:17] Erik: The heliacopter.
[0:20:18 – 0:20:19] Adam: That’s how they say them.
[0:20:19 – 0:20:21] Erik: Go a little faster than 70, you could catch them.
[0:20:21 – 0:20:23] Adam: No, then they even flee further.
[0:20:23 – 0:20:24] Adam: It’s too loud then.
[0:20:24 – 0:20:28] Adam: You got the chop, chop, chop coming.
[0:20:28 – 0:20:30] Erik: Yeah, the chop gets too much.
[0:20:30 – 0:20:33] Adam: They need the stealth helicopter that they use to get Osama.
[0:20:34 – 0:20:34] Adam: Oh, yeah.
[0:20:34 – 0:20:36] Adam: In Zero Dark Thirty.
[0:20:37 – 0:20:39] Adam: Yeah, that’s the one they need to hunt these moose.
[0:20:39 – 0:20:40] Adam: They wouldn’t hear it coming then.
[0:20:40 – 0:20:43] Erik: Yeah, we probably got a couple of those laying around still.
[0:20:43 – 0:20:47] Adam: The Forest Service has a couple of the old extreme stealth Apaches.
[0:20:47 – 0:20:49] Adam: Yeah, that’s what they got laying around.
[0:20:50 – 0:20:51] Adam: They shouldn’t be using the MD-500.
[0:20:51 – 0:20:51] Adam: No.
[0:20:51 – 0:20:56] Adam: They’re just being so modest because of their financial constraints probably.
[0:20:56 – 0:20:59] Erik: Yeah, get some of those Black Ops Helos up here.
[0:20:59 – 0:21:00] Adam: That’s what we need.
[0:21:01 – 0:21:02] Adam: Just get them from the Border Patrol.
[0:21:02 – 0:21:03] Adam: They got a couple.
[0:21:03 – 0:21:04] Adam: They don’t need them.
[0:21:04 – 0:21:04] Erik: Copters?
[0:21:05 – 0:21:05] Erik: Choppers?
[0:21:05 – 0:21:07] Erik: What’s another good name for a helicopter?
[0:21:08 – 0:21:09] Erik: Chopper.
[0:21:09 – 0:21:10] Erik: Are you a chopper guy?
[0:21:10 – 0:21:12] Erik: Are you a copter guy?
[0:21:12 – 0:21:13] Adam: No, it’s choppers.
[0:21:13 – 0:21:14] Adam: Helo guy?
[0:21:14 – 0:21:15] Adam: It’s definitely not helo.
[0:21:15 – 0:21:16] Adam: It’s helio choppers.
[0:21:16 – 0:21:19] Adam: Helio choppers?
[0:21:19 – 0:21:20] Erik: It’s the old thump thump bird.
[0:21:20 – 0:21:21] Erik: Thump thump bird, yeah.
[0:21:22 – 0:21:22] Adam: All right.
[0:21:22 – 0:21:24] Adam: I don’t think anybody’s called them that.
[0:21:25 – 0:21:28] Adam: Anyways, they need eight inches of snow is generally what they’re going to wait for.
[0:21:28 – 0:21:32] Adam: So they did wait, and then we got a little bit of snow in mid-January.
[0:21:32 – 0:21:33] Adam: Quick, count them.
[0:21:34 – 0:21:37] Adam: Quick, get out there in the heliocopters and get them.
[0:21:37 – 0:21:38] Adam: Copters.
[0:21:38 – 0:21:40] Adam: Oh, my God.
[0:21:41 – 0:21:45] Adam: Even then, only 26% of the survey plots had snow depths of over eight inches.
[0:21:46 – 0:21:48] Adam: But overall, the survey conditions were rated…
[0:21:48 – 0:21:52] Adam: That’s fair to good for all of the plots, so there you go.
[0:21:52 – 0:21:54] Erik: Really speaks to what a lousy winter it was.
[0:21:54 – 0:21:57] Adam: My God.
[0:21:57 – 0:21:59] Adam: The cruise, here, I got some numbers for you.
[0:21:59 – 0:21:59] Adam: All right, I’m ready.
[0:22:00 – 0:22:05] Adam: Okay, so they had it for 10 days running, and they were, how many plots were they doing?
[0:22:06 – 0:22:08] Adam: 58 plots, I think we said.
[0:22:08 – 0:22:09] Erik: Wow, that’s what I was going to say, too.
[0:22:09 – 0:22:11] Adam: I think we nailed it.
[0:22:11 – 0:22:12] Adam: 53 plots.
[0:22:12 – 0:22:13] Adam: Sorry.
[0:22:13 – 0:22:14] Adam: 53 plots.
[0:22:14 – 0:22:18] Adam: How many moves do you think they counted in 10 days over 53 plots?
[0:22:18 – 0:22:19] Adam: How big is the plot again?
[0:22:19 – 0:22:21] Adam: Like two and a half by five miles?
[0:22:21 – 0:22:22] Adam: Yeah, 2.7 times five mile plots.
[0:22:22 – 0:22:22] Adam: I’m going to say 1,785.
[0:22:27 – 0:22:29] Adam: They were less than that.
[0:22:29 – 0:22:32] Adam: Crews this year observed 323 moose, 148 bulls, 120 cows, and 43 calves.
[0:22:32 – 0:22:33] Adam: Also 12 unclassified adults.
[0:22:41 – 0:22:44] Adam: Oh, yeah, they’re living their best life.
[0:22:45 – 0:22:48] Erik: Just some loners.
[0:22:48 – 0:22:52] Adam: They were just wearing sunglasses and a weird hat, so it was hard to tell.
[0:22:52 – 0:22:55] Erik: Yeah, just wearing sunglasses and smoking a cig.
[0:22:55 – 0:23:01] Adam: Yeah, they were reading a newspaper really close to their face, so you just couldn’t tell.
[0:23:01 – 0:23:02] Adam: Yeah, trench coat.
[0:23:02 – 0:23:08] Adam: From the angle of about 350 feet in a helio chapters, it’s hard to tell.
[0:23:08 – 0:23:09] Adam: They are unclassified people.
[0:23:09 – 0:23:11] Adam: I admit, I like the candor.
[0:23:11 – 0:23:13] Adam: They could have easily just guessed.
[0:23:13 – 0:23:13] Adam: Yeah, right.
[0:23:13 – 0:23:15] Adam: Like, I don’t know, Doug, what do you think?
[0:23:15 – 0:23:17] Adam: And they’re like, that’s unclassified adult.
[0:23:18 – 0:23:18] Erik: I don’t know.
[0:23:18 – 0:23:22] Erik: It’s either an unclassified adult or a bunch of kids in a trench coat.
[0:23:22 – 0:23:22] Erik: I can’t tell.
[0:23:23 – 0:23:25] Adam: I wanted to really get on this helicopter.
[0:23:25 – 0:23:27] Adam: I’m going to take this moment to say this.
[0:23:27 – 0:23:28] Adam: I really want on this helicopter.
[0:23:29 – 0:23:29] Erik: You want on this ride?
[0:23:30 – 0:23:31] Adam: I do want on this ride.
[0:23:31 – 0:23:32] Adam: For one, I’ve never been on a helicopter.
[0:23:33 – 0:23:35] Adam: For two, I’m really interested in counting the moose now.
[0:23:36 – 0:23:42] Adam: And for three, it would make a great story and probably some really good field audio to get on the Bell Kiowa.
[0:23:44 – 0:23:48] Erik: Yeah, I mean, you could sign up to get trafficked on the Edwin Gott.
[0:23:48 – 0:23:54] Erik: Why can’t you actually sign up to go up and fly on a moose counting excursion?
[0:23:54 – 0:24:03] Adam: So I texted Joe Fredericks, and I was like, hey, can you use your media savvy and contacts in the Forest Service to get me on the moose helicopter?
[0:24:03 – 0:24:05] Adam: He said, absolutely not going to happen.
[0:24:07 – 0:24:09] Adam: Brutally honest response within one minute.
[0:24:09 – 0:24:10] Adam: Not going to happen.
[0:24:10 – 0:24:11] Adam: I don’t like that.
[0:24:11 – 0:24:19] Adam: He tried to get onto an airplane account where they stocked the trout out of the airplane, and the same response was like, hell no.
[0:24:19 – 0:24:21] Adam: That’s a firm hell no.
[0:24:21 – 0:24:30] Adam: They use contracted airplanes, I guess, and because of the liability and insurance crap, it’s an absolutely never going to happen kind of scenario, I guess.
[0:24:31 – 0:24:34] Erik: I never took Joe Fredericks for a glass half empty kind of guy.
[0:24:34 – 0:24:35] Adam: Well, he’s tried, though.
[0:24:35 – 0:24:36] Adam: That’s the thing.
[0:24:36 – 0:24:38] Adam: No, not with that attitude.
[0:24:38 – 0:24:40] SPEAKER_01: Keep trying.
[0:24:40 – 0:24:46] Adam: So I’m going to definitely send a strongly worded letter with a Freedom of Information request that I’m going to get me a seat on one of these.
[0:24:47 – 0:24:48] Adam: Because they have an extra seat.
[0:24:48 – 0:24:49] Adam: Yeah.
[0:24:49 – 0:24:50] Adam: There’s one guy right in the shotgun.
[0:24:50 – 0:24:51] Erik: And we know where they’re sitting.
[0:24:51 – 0:24:53] Adam: And there’s one other one behind the pilot.
[0:24:53 – 0:24:55] Adam: I want the seat behind the first observer.
[0:24:55 – 0:24:55] Adam: Yeah.
[0:24:56 – 0:24:59] Adam: And I’ll be a proud independent observer.
[0:25:00 – 0:25:02] Adam: And I’ll call them all unidentified adults.
[0:25:02 – 0:25:03] Adam: I don’t care.
[0:25:03 – 0:25:05] Adam: I just want to get up there and take some pictures and go for a ride.
[0:25:05 – 0:25:07] Adam: Proud independent observer.
[0:25:08 – 0:25:11] Adam: I just want that sweet field audio from in the helicopter.
[0:25:11 – 0:25:12] Adam: That’s all I want, Eric.
[0:25:13 – 0:25:19] Adam: Anyways, I looked into it already, and it’s not looking good, but we’re going to keep trying.
[0:25:19 – 0:25:19] Erik: Yeah.
[0:25:20 – 0:25:21] Adam: I’m not going to take no for an answer.
[0:25:22 – 0:25:28] Adam: I’m going to show up at the heliport and try and sneak onto the helicopter, maybe dressed as like a…
[0:25:29 – 0:25:33] Adam: I’ll be disguised as like a crate of… What would they have?
[0:25:33 – 0:25:33] Adam: A crate of…
[0:25:36 – 0:25:36] Erik: I don’t know.
[0:25:37 – 0:25:38] Adam: Loose-leaf paper.
[0:25:39 – 0:25:42] Adam: Yeah, that’s what the government’s got in a helicopter.
[0:25:42 – 0:25:46] Erik: Yeah, just show up to the heliport and just start shouting FOIA at them.
[0:25:47 – 0:25:48] Adam: I’m just going to try and sneak on.
[0:25:49 – 0:25:54] Adam: You can put me into a big duffel bag and then have the ground screw.
[0:25:54 – 0:25:58] Adam: I’ll just slip the ground screw like 20 bucks and be like, throw me in the back with the stuff.
[0:25:58 – 0:26:04] Erik: Yeah, I’m sure those guys would be really excited about a hijink situation.
[0:26:04 – 0:26:06] Erik: We got a stowaway.
[0:26:06 – 0:26:16] Erik: We’re counting moose and then we’re dropping off this large rolling bin of laundry at the local cleaners and then you come popping up out of it.
[0:26:16 – 0:26:18] Adam: Not again, another podcaster.
[0:26:18 – 0:26:19] Erik: Another podcaster.
[0:26:19 – 0:26:26] Adam: We already told Joe, and now we’re telling you, stay off these government aircraft.
[0:26:26 – 0:26:29] Adam: They got 323 moose, as we’ve said.
[0:26:30 – 0:26:38] Adam: After adjusting for sampling and sightability, the estimated moose population in northeastern Minnesota was called at 3,470.
[0:26:39 – 0:26:42] Adam: Overall survey results suggest that calf survival remains low.
[0:26:43 – 0:26:50] Adam: However, it is important to note that adult moose survival has the greatest long-term impact on annual changes in the population.
[0:26:51 – 0:26:59] Adam: Consistent with the recent relative stability of the population trend, the annual survival rate of adult GPS-collared moose changed little.
[0:26:59 – 0:27:03] Adam: It’s been about 85-88% since 2014.
[0:27:04 – 0:27:08] Adam: Sampling uncertainty is moderately high in this kind of wildlife survey.
[0:27:09 – 0:27:13] Adam: You would think it would be easy to spot a moose standing in snow looking up at a helicopter.
[0:27:14 – 0:27:20] Adam: But they often hide in dense habitat, and they do recognize and avoid the sounds of low-flying aircraft.
[0:27:20 – 0:27:23] Adam: These factors are all built into the models.
[0:27:23 – 0:27:32] Adam: The actual estimates released each year are based on observed moose, yes, and what that likely means for all the vast areas the helicopters couldn’t reach that year.
[0:27:33 – 0:27:35] Adam: I have a cool map to show you.
[0:27:35 – 0:27:36] Adam: Cool map?
[0:27:36 – 0:27:38] Adam: I’m going to pull up this cool map for you, Eric.
[0:27:39 – 0:27:50] Adam: Yeah, so they’re only looking at a very small fraction of the grid, counting them, and they got 300 or whatever, and then they just sort of extrapolate that over the other areas.
[0:27:50 – 0:27:52] Erik: How are they not counting the same moose twice?
[0:27:54 – 0:27:54] Adam: Good question.
[0:27:55 – 0:27:59] Adam: They’re flying at 70 miles an hour, so the moose can’t go that fast.
[0:27:59 – 0:28:00] Adam: Yeah, I guess.
[0:28:00 – 0:28:02] Adam: They’re zigzagging over a pretty good area, though.
[0:28:02 – 0:28:11] Erik: But if they’re doing it over like 12 days, are they just making sure that they’re going in a direction that they know a moose isn’t going to travel like into the next sector or –
[0:28:12 – 0:28:16] Adam: Yeah, I mean, they do have some moose that are radio collared or GPS.
[0:28:16 – 0:28:18] Adam: I’m sorry, they’re not radio collared gramps.
[0:28:18 – 0:28:19] Adam: It’s 2024.
[0:28:20 – 0:28:21] Adam: They’re GPS collars.
[0:28:22 – 0:28:24] Erik: Get out the transducer.
[0:28:25 – 0:28:26] Adam: Check out this map.
[0:28:26 – 0:28:28] Adam: I’m a big fan of this map.
[0:28:28 – 0:28:29] Adam: I wanted to show you it.
[0:28:30 – 0:28:30] Adam: Can you see it?
[0:28:30 – 0:28:32] Adam: The black units.
[0:28:35 – 0:28:40] Adam: The parcels that have the darkest shading are the high density units.
[0:28:40 – 0:28:41] Adam: Okay, yeah.
[0:28:41 – 0:28:49] Adam: So it’s kind of fun to like zoom in around that and imagine where in the boundary waters you would be because it doesn’t show a lot of like fine detail.
[0:28:49 – 0:28:57] Adam: So you have to sort of like take your clues and cues from the general outline to kind of get a good idea of where you are.
[0:28:58 – 0:29:04] Adam: I’m sure there’s a much more high-definition version of this in their GPS units.
[0:29:04 – 0:29:11] Adam: They probably have layers on the mapping software they use, so they know exactly where they are at all times.
[0:29:11 – 0:29:15] Adam: I think it’s pretty neat how they kind of sprinkle the units around.
[0:29:15 – 0:29:15] Adam: Different definitions.
[0:29:16 – 0:29:19] Adam: Yeah, they pick on purpose.
[0:29:19 – 0:29:24] Adam: So they classify each one of these squares as classified as like, is it high, medium, or low density?
[0:29:25 – 0:29:29] Adam: Or is it a habitat plot where they expected there was a wildfire or they had done some logging there?
[0:29:32 – 0:29:35] Adam: They have some that are close to the road, some that are way in the middle of nowhere.
[0:29:35 – 0:29:35] Adam: Yeah.
[0:29:36 – 0:29:47] Adam: I don’t know, and those are randomly sampled, but it’s based on the different definitions of what they expect as far as how many moose they’ll see.
[0:29:47 – 0:29:53] Adam: So they want a bunch where they think they’re going to see some moose, and then they want to go to some spots where they think there’s less likely of a chance they’ll see one.
[0:29:55 – 0:29:57] Adam: I will try and make sure I get this…
[0:29:58 – 0:30:21] Adam: on to the show notes too i’ll have to find the link for this though this is just like a save the picture of the map eric sure i’ll try and get that to you turn it into a pdf yeah i can convert that i can convert that pretty easily old radio caller over here is going to turn it into a pdf good luck with that i’ll just ask my uh i’ll ask my nephew to do it there you go
[0:30:23 – 0:30:26] Adam: We got some shout-outs to the crew.
[0:30:26 – 0:30:27] Adam: Do we have time?
[0:30:28 – 0:30:29] Adam: How much are we doing on time?
[0:30:29 – 0:30:30] Adam: Do I have time for the shout-outs?
[0:30:30 – 0:30:32] Adam: We got time.
[0:30:32 – 0:30:34] Adam: This is an unusual episode, Eric.
[0:30:34 – 0:30:35] Adam: Unusual?
[0:30:35 – 0:30:36] Adam: It’s a little unusual.
[0:30:37 – 0:30:48] Adam: This is an excellent partnership, the survey, between the Minnesota DNR Enforcement and Fish and Wildlife Divisions and the Fond du Lac Band of Lake Superior Chippewa and…
[0:30:49 – 0:30:51] Adam: The 1854 Treaty Authority.
[0:30:52 – 0:30:53] Adam: I’m a big fan of authority.
[0:30:54 – 0:30:54] Erik: Yeah.
[0:30:54 – 0:30:59] Adam: Specifically, thank you to Nancy Hansen for the annual survey planning and coordination.
[0:30:59 – 0:31:02] Adam: Captain Jacob Willis, chief pilot.
[0:31:02 – 0:31:03] Adam: Shout out.
[0:31:03 – 0:31:05] Adam: Shout out.
[0:31:06 – 0:31:07] Adam: Captain Jacob, are you listening?
[0:31:08 – 0:31:09] Adam: Hit us up in the DMs.
[0:31:10 – 0:31:13] Adam: Please, I want to get on that helicopter really badly.
[0:31:14 – 0:31:23] Adam: According to all the aircraft and pilots, Mike Schrag of the Fond du Lac band of Lake Superior Chippewa, Darren Vaught and Morgan Schwingen.
[0:31:24 – 0:31:25] Adam: You said that right.
[0:31:25 – 0:31:26] Adam: There you go.
[0:31:26 – 0:31:28] Adam: Of the 1854 Treaty Authority.
[0:31:28 – 0:31:34] Adam: They have secured the funding we needed to achieve this dream for all these years.
[0:31:34 – 0:31:44] Adam: And big shout out to enforcement pilots, Grace Zeller and Brad Maz, successfully and skillfully piloting the aircraft during this survey.
[0:31:44 – 0:31:46] Erik: You’ve never been on a chopper, huh?
[0:31:46 – 0:31:48] Adam: Never been on a hillet chopper.
[0:31:49 – 0:31:50] Erik: I don’t know if I have any interest.
[0:31:51 – 0:31:51] Adam: Yeah, I know.
[0:31:51 – 0:31:53] Adam: It’s a little scary, right?
[0:31:53 – 0:31:54] Adam: But I’d trust them.
[0:31:55 – 0:31:59] Adam: If anybody who has just shouted out is listening, I’m serious.
[0:31:59 – 0:32:00] Adam: Please get me on this helicopter.
[0:32:01 – 0:32:01] Adam: Hit me up in the DMs.
[0:32:02 – 0:32:07] Adam: It’s tumblehomecast at Instagram, the picture app, or tumblehomecast at gmail.com.
[0:32:07 – 0:32:09] Adam: Eric will come, too, if we can get both of us on there.
[0:32:10 – 0:32:12] Adam: I’ll fly him up from the Southlands.
[0:32:12 – 0:32:15] Erik: I mean, if it’s all or nothing, yeah, I’d do it for you.
[0:32:15 – 0:32:18] Adam: But if I have the choice…
[0:32:19 – 0:32:40] Adam: come up we’ll do the bear grease and the moose survey all in the same week yeah maybe let’s hook it up here’s the deal okay here’s the deal what’s his name captain jacob captain jacob if you’re listening you get us on the chopper we get you into pronto pup lodge for the bear grease next year yeah you get to hand a corn dog to a musher i mean that’s a pretty cool thing
[0:32:41 – 0:32:46] Erik: Yeah, a guarantee that you will hand a corndog to the championship team.
[0:32:46 – 0:32:50] Adam: Pronto Lodge is set up in a high-density moose zone, too, so you might see some moose there.
[0:32:50 – 0:32:54] Erik: Yeah, and you could probably land in the general area.
[0:32:54 – 0:32:57] Erik: I think we know of a couple of good helipads.
[0:32:57 – 0:33:01] Adam: Oh, we know all the good helipads up here in the Arrowhead.
[0:33:01 – 0:33:05] Erik: Yeah, I mean, at the very least, we know that.
[0:33:06 – 0:33:08] Adam: We’ve got the experience, Captain Jacob.
[0:33:08 – 0:33:09] Adam: You’re going to want us on board.
[0:33:10 – 0:33:11] Adam: Plus, I have really poor eyesight.
[0:33:13 – 0:33:14] Adam: Eric’s got pretty good eyesight.
[0:33:16 – 0:33:17] Erik: To see the moose.
[0:33:18 – 0:33:19] Erik: Well, you have poor eyesight.
[0:33:19 – 0:33:20] Erik: How is that helping?
[0:33:20 – 0:33:22] Adam: Well, I got really good glasses, though.
[0:33:22 – 0:33:23] Erik: Okay.
[0:33:24 – 0:33:27] Erik: I mean, at the very least, you’d be able to tell if it was an undetermined adult.
[0:33:27 – 0:33:28] Adam: Exactly.
[0:33:28 – 0:33:29] Adam: I can tell that much.
[0:33:30 – 0:33:30] Erik: Yeah.
[0:33:31 – 0:33:36] Adam: There’s a bunch of information on how they do make all the calls.
[0:33:37 – 0:33:38] Adam: Definitely go ahead.
[0:33:38 – 0:33:44] Adam: As we always say on these types of episodes, this is not a replacement for reading the report by Gwia Dice.
[0:33:45 – 0:33:49] Erik: You got to go read the… Eric, that’s his name.
[0:33:49 – 0:33:51] Adam: You can’t laugh at it like that.
[0:33:55 – 0:33:55] Adam: What’s his full name?
[0:33:56 – 0:33:57] Adam: We got to get it now.
[0:33:57 – 0:33:58] Adam: We got to go back and get it.
[0:33:59 – 0:34:00] Adam: Oh, boy.
[0:34:00 – 0:34:02] Adam: We’re in big trouble now if we can’t find his name.
[0:34:02 – 0:34:03] Erik: You’re not getting on this chopper.
[0:34:04 – 0:34:05] Adam: Oh, my gosh.
[0:34:05 – 0:34:06] Adam: We’re definitely getting on the chopper.
[0:34:08 – 0:34:09] Adam: John H. Guida is.
[0:34:10 – 0:34:11] Adam: I don’t think that’s how you say it.
[0:34:12 – 0:34:13] Erik: I don’t even want to see it.
[0:34:13 – 0:34:15] Erik: I just want to picture it in my mind.
[0:34:15 – 0:34:16] Adam: You don’t need to see it.
[0:34:16 – 0:34:16] Adam: Yeah.
[0:34:17 – 0:34:17] Adam: All right.
[0:34:17 – 0:34:18] Adam: You don’t need to see it.
[0:34:18 – 0:34:18] Adam: Yeah.
[0:34:19 – 0:34:19] Adam: Perfect.
[0:34:22 – 0:34:28] Adam: You will probably not see Alsace Alsace on your next trip into the Boundary Waters.
[0:34:29 – 0:34:33] Adam: What was once common will become rarer and rarer in our lifetimes.
[0:34:33 – 0:34:38] Adam: I’ve seen one moose this year, way up the trail, and I haven’t seen one near the tumble shed in a long time now.
[0:34:40 – 0:34:44] Adam: I remember the summer of 2001 seeing moose damn near every trip up and down the Clearwater Road.
[0:34:44 – 0:34:46] Adam: Eric was talking about this earlier.
[0:34:47 – 0:34:51] Adam: It was literally every time you would go up and down the road, you’d see one or you’d hear somebody that just saw one.
[0:34:52 – 0:34:52] Erik: Yeah.
[0:34:52 – 0:34:55] Erik: There was one at the end of the road that was just always there.
[0:34:55 – 0:34:57] Adam: It was just always there waving at you.
[0:34:57 – 0:34:58] Adam: Clippity-clop.
[0:34:59 – 0:35:03] Adam: It is clear the trends are going in the wrong direction for our beloved moose.
[0:35:04 – 0:35:10] Adam: And in reality, we are witnessing the end of an era for northern Minnesota where moose no longer belong.
[0:35:11 – 0:35:15] Adam: Next week on Tumble Home, we discuss the decline of the moose we are witnessing in real time.
[0:35:16 – 0:35:28] Adam: This is the story of climate change and the changing forest, wolves and human greed, slugs and snails, white-tailed deer, and the parasite that connects all those things, brainworm.
[0:35:30 – 0:35:31] Adam: It is the wolves.
[0:35:32 – 0:35:33] Adam: Damn wolves.
[0:35:35 – 0:35:35] Adam: Yeah.
[0:35:37 – 0:35:39] Adam: It’s always them wolves.
[0:35:40 – 0:35:40] Adam: What do you think?
[0:35:41 – 0:35:42] Erik: No, no, they’re not moving out.
[0:35:42 – 0:35:43] Erik: They’re just dying.
[0:35:43 – 0:35:45] Erik: Not like caribou situation.
[0:35:45 – 0:35:57] Adam: They’re dying, but I mean, ultimately what we will discuss next week is that this is now whitetail deer territory, and whitetail deer and moose generally do not share the same territory.
[0:35:57 – 0:36:01] Adam: Or they shouldn’t because it ends poorly, and that’s where the brain worm comes in.
[0:36:02 – 0:36:04] Erik: But it’s a new thing, right?
[0:36:04 – 0:36:05] Erik: The brain worm?
[0:36:05 – 0:36:05] Erik: Yeah.
[0:36:06 – 0:36:13] Adam: Well, it’s new because of the amount of whitetail deer that are now up here intermingling into moose territory because they can now.
[0:36:14 – 0:36:17] Erik: But there were whitetail deer back in the 50s and 60s, too.
[0:36:17 – 0:36:19] Adam: Yeah, but not in the densities we see now.
[0:36:20 – 0:36:21] Adam: And they just couldn’t hack it.
[0:36:21 – 0:36:23] Adam: I mean, you’re always going to have some overlap.
[0:36:24 – 0:36:28] Adam: But generally, the places that are good for moose were not good for whitetail deer.
[0:36:28 – 0:36:29] Adam: Yeah.
[0:36:30 – 0:36:31] Adam: And that goes the other way too.
[0:36:32 – 0:36:40] Adam: But nowadays, what we’re seeing because of a lot of factors that this area is now very good for whitetail deer and they do quite well here.
[0:36:40 – 0:36:47] Adam: And that is ultimately not good for moose because there’s the brain worm, but it’s also not good for moose for a lot of other reasons too.
[0:36:47 – 0:36:48] Adam: Yeah.
[0:36:48 – 0:36:50] Adam: Which is more complex, but…
[0:36:51 – 0:37:01] Adam: Ultimately, we are watching in real time a localized extinction event, and it’s unlikely that by the time you and I are very old that there will still be moose around here.
[0:37:01 – 0:37:05] Adam: But there’s always a chance.
[0:37:06 – 0:37:08] Adam: It’s not looking good, though, right now.
[0:37:08 – 0:37:15] Adam: So I don’t want to leave it on too bad of a bummer, but next week’s not going to be all that much of a happy story.
[0:37:16 – 0:37:18] Adam: But there’s always hope.
[0:37:18 – 0:37:19] Adam: I mean, it’s just…
[0:37:20 – 0:37:23] Adam: You know, it’s what we were talking about at the top, though.
[0:37:23 – 0:37:25] Adam: Like, I’ve been up here a while, and so have you.
[0:37:25 – 0:37:28] Adam: And it’s clear to both of us that there’s just not that many moose around anymore.
[0:37:29 – 0:37:29] Erik: Yeah.
[0:37:30 – 0:37:32] Adam: And there’s a lot of reasons for it.
[0:37:32 – 0:37:40] Adam: And the way it’s going, we’re probably going to be looking at a lot of oak trees and deer and not so many moose.
[0:37:40 – 0:37:41] Erik: Prairie scenario?
[0:37:41 – 0:37:43] Adam: It’s a prairie scenario, once again.
[0:37:43 – 0:37:44] Adam: Yeah, so…
[0:37:46 – 0:37:58] Adam: We always have fun on Tumble Home, and ultimately we are all lucky to be here right now when we can see moose, and there’s not a whole lot that you or I can really do about this, Eric.
[0:37:58 – 0:38:09] Adam: So we’re not going to be too somber about it, but just trying to be real, and this is the story that ultimately I went looking for, you know,
[0:38:10 – 0:38:33] Adam: information on the moose survey and the numbers on moose and all that and this is just where it led me and uh i’m gonna i’m gonna shoot it to you straight yeah please do so that’s the only way i want it uh we will pick this up next week thank you for uh being here and uh thank you for listening tumble homies as we always say here life is precious every day is a miracle a reaper dare check