164: Mind of the Raven

Episode Transcript

[0:00:17 – 0:00:32] Adam: Oh well, no one really knows the real you when life is brief So I’ve heard, but what that’s gonna do with this black hole in me
[0:00:35 – 0:00:40] Adam: Tumble Home
[0:01:06 – 0:01:08] Adam: And don’t worry, we’re not going to wait to get to the meat very long tonight.
[0:01:08 – 0:01:09] Adam: We’re getting right to it.
[0:01:10 – 0:01:12] Erik: It’s a roughed grouse podcast?
[0:01:15 – 0:01:17] Adam: They’re very wise beyond their years.
[0:01:17 – 0:01:19] Erik: It’s all a show.
[0:01:19 – 0:01:20] Erik: Don’t worry.
[0:01:21 – 0:01:24] Erik: I just look like I want to be run over by a vehicle.
[0:01:24 – 0:01:26] Erik: Oh, actually, I will be run over by a vehicle.
[0:01:27 – 0:01:28] Adam: Gotcha.
[0:01:28 – 0:01:28] Adam: Got me.
[0:01:29 – 0:01:29] Erik: That’s what I wanted.
[0:01:30 – 0:01:34] Adam: It’s like being reintroduced into the world.
[0:01:34 – 0:01:36] Adam: There’s something better.
[0:01:36 – 0:01:37] Adam: Reintroduced.
[0:01:38 – 0:01:42] Adam: Tonight’s Ron Schara Outdoor Calendar Fact of the Day.
[0:01:42 – 0:01:44] Adam: It is October 1st.
[0:01:44 – 0:01:46] Adam: Buy new shoelaces.
[0:01:46 – 0:01:47] Adam: Oh, no, wait.
[0:01:48 – 0:02:09] Adam: wood ducks departing sunsets at 6 52 p.m uh just going to note uh tomorrow is the fall wild turkey opener and the sunrise tomorrow is at 7 12 a.m of course go get them turkeys yeah tonight on the show we are talking about the mind of the raven
[0:02:11 – 0:02:12] Adam: Corvus corax.
[0:02:12 – 0:02:13] Adam: You see them all over.
[0:02:15 – 0:02:18] Adam: A bird that you see all over, but it’s a bird that is hard to know, Eric.
[0:02:19 – 0:02:19] Erik: Yeah.
[0:02:20 – 0:02:27] Erik: You’re going to spend the next however long it takes to convince me that they are not just…
[0:02:28 – 0:02:32] Adam: I’d say they’re the dolphins of the sky, but dolphins are dumb as rocks compared to ravens.
[0:02:33 – 0:02:33] Erik: Wow.
[0:02:34 – 0:02:35] Adam: So there, we’ll start with that phrase.
[0:02:35 – 0:02:37] Erik: That’s a direct quote from the book.
[0:02:38 – 0:02:48] Adam: Then, of course, the book we’re referencing tonight, and I’ll be reading extensively from, Mind of the Raven, Bernd Heinrich, 1999.
[0:02:49 – 0:02:49] Adam: Bernd.
[0:02:49 – 0:02:52] Adam: Bernd, with a real beaut from Bernd.
[0:02:52 – 0:02:53] Adam: Nice.
[0:02:53 – 0:02:53] Adam: Yeah.
[0:02:54 – 0:02:57] Adam: As I do say, it’s a wonderful book.
[0:02:57 – 0:02:58] Adam: Go ahead and pick one up.
[0:02:59 – 0:03:06] Adam: And you can hit pause right now and read it and then check back with us or go through with the episode and then maybe read it.
[0:03:06 – 0:03:11] Adam: I’m only going to read maybe a third of the book aloud to you tonight.
[0:03:11 – 0:03:12] Adam: So I’m going to say it.
[0:03:12 – 0:03:13] Adam: I’m not going to spoil anything.
[0:03:14 – 0:03:17] Erik: Well, they’re your notes on the book, right?
[0:03:17 – 0:03:19] Adam: Well, it’s a lot of passages.
[0:03:20 – 0:03:24] Erik: You were just at the library just pressing the book into a copier?
[0:03:24 – 0:03:26] Adam: I was typing, yeah, furiously typing it out.
[0:03:27 – 0:03:28] Erik: Well, I’m looking forward to it.
[0:03:28 – 0:03:29] Erik: I don’t know much.
[0:03:29 – 0:03:31] Erik: I haven’t been book reported in some time.
[0:03:32 – 0:03:56] Adam: yeah and i’ve read this just to be fair too i read this i finished this book maybe a month and a half ago yeah typed up the notes right away and then uh yeah and then uh we’ve been doing some other stuff so it’s not like quite fresh on the mind but uh the one thing i always uh that always interests me about them is that when they blink their uh their blinker goes sideways not up and down like our eyes do like
[0:03:56 – 0:04:08] Adam: the opposite of ours and it’s white it’s a white lens and there’s a name for it but I don’t have that written down in front of me but it’s not important what’s important is the picture of them doing it in your mind like zoop zoop
[0:04:09 – 0:04:11] Adam: You know, it’s a magical thing if you ever see a raven blink.
[0:04:12 – 0:04:13] Erik: There you go.
[0:04:13 – 0:04:14] Adam: So think about that.
[0:04:14 – 0:04:16] Erik: Think about that while you’re thinking about that.
[0:04:16 – 0:04:17] Erik: Think about this.
[0:04:17 – 0:04:22] Erik: We are sponsored, as always, by our fine friends on Patreon.
[0:04:23 – 0:04:25] Erik: We have been over-commercialized by our patrons.
[0:04:26 – 0:04:26] Erik: Sorry.
[0:04:27 – 0:04:29] Erik: But thank you all who are out there.
[0:04:31 – 0:04:33] Adam: We are still a proud independent podcast, though.
[0:04:33 – 0:04:34] Erik: Yes, we are.
[0:04:34 – 0:04:40] Erik: I don’t know how you can be over-commercialized by the platform that is Patreon.
[0:04:41 – 0:04:47] Erik: But maybe this is the only podcast that some people listen to and it rubs them the wrong way.
[0:04:47 – 0:04:51] Adam: Too many beer sponsors, probably.
[0:04:51 – 0:04:52] Adam: Too thirsty.
[0:04:53 – 0:04:54] Erik: You can look forward to a TCC…
[0:05:00 – 0:05:11] Erik: In coming shortly, probably the same time that this is up, because I have to sit outside of the library and take advantage of their internet, and I might as well do two at one.
[0:05:11 – 0:05:15] Erik: Kill, is this an okay thing to say on a show like this?
[0:05:15 – 0:05:16] Adam: Absolutely not.
[0:05:16 – 0:05:16] Adam: Okay.
[0:05:17 – 0:05:18] Adam: Hug two birds.
[0:05:18 – 0:05:20] Adam: Hug two birds with one stone?
[0:05:20 – 0:05:21] Adam: With one hug.
[0:05:22 – 0:05:23] Adam: Dang it, there’s no way to…
[0:05:23 – 0:05:24] Erik: Hug two birds with one hug.
[0:05:25 – 0:05:27] Adam: Yeah, hug two birds with one hug.
[0:05:27 – 0:05:27] Adam: There you go.
[0:05:27 – 0:05:29] Erik: Hug two birds with one arm.
[0:05:30 – 0:05:31] Adam: Sure, they’re small.
[0:05:31 – 0:05:34] Adam: You could definitely sneak two of them into one arm hug.
[0:05:34 – 0:05:34] Adam: There you go.
[0:05:34 – 0:05:44] Erik: Yeah, so we’re hugging two birds with one arm by uploading this podcast at the same time that I upload our $5 a month Patreon TCC series this week.
[0:05:45 – 0:05:47] Erik: I don’t even know how or why.
[0:05:47 – 0:05:52] Erik: It probably has something to do with the manic state of our trip this last spring.
[0:05:52 – 0:05:53] Adam: I blame the numbers chain.
[0:05:53 – 0:05:57] Erik: The numbers chain can be blamed for the fact that we are reviewing…
[0:05:58 – 0:06:01] Erik: Still as old as time.
[0:06:01 – 0:06:05] Erik: Who knew Angela Lansbury could belt out some tunes?
[0:06:05 – 0:06:08] Adam: Angela Lansbury’s version is way better than Celine Dion’s.
[0:06:08 – 0:06:08] Adam: Yes.
[0:06:09 – 0:06:10] Adam: That’s a rock fact.
[0:06:10 – 0:06:13] Erik: Beauty and the Beast’s coming at you.
[0:06:13 – 0:06:15] Erik: I’ve got some thoughts for sure.
[0:06:15 – 0:06:17] Erik: I didn’t know if I was going to have very many of them.
[0:06:17 – 0:06:18] Erik: Yeah.
[0:06:18 – 0:06:20] Erik: I enjoyed it, and we’re going to be talking about that here.
[0:06:21 – 0:06:21] Erik: It’s a classic.
[0:06:23 – 0:06:25] Adam: Who’s your favorite character, and why is it Gaston, Eric?
[0:06:26 – 0:06:26] Adam: Hmm.
[0:06:30 – 0:06:32] Adam: I got a new electric toothbrush.
[0:06:32 – 0:06:35] Adam: My teeth, my choppers are going to look like Gaston’s next week.
[0:06:35 – 0:06:38] Erik: It’s because he decorates with antlers.
[0:06:38 – 0:06:39] Adam: Oh, yeah.
[0:06:39 – 0:06:40] Adam: His aesthetic is all antler.
[0:06:40 – 0:06:41] Erik: Yep.
[0:06:41 – 0:06:42] Erik: All antler and all boot.
[0:06:43 – 0:06:44] Erik: My favorite character is LeFou.
[0:06:49 – 0:06:50] Adam: You sit in the snowbank.
[0:06:50 – 0:06:52] Adam: You tell me when they get home, LeFou.
[0:06:53 – 0:06:55] Adam: I’ll do that, Gaston.
[0:06:56 – 0:06:56] Adam: Oui, oui.
[0:06:57 – 0:07:17] Erik: Yeah, so we’re going to be delving in, dissecting, and, of course, getting into our official review that’s going to now, if anybody out there does have a bunch of time on their hands, send us an easily digestible Excel and or Word document on all of our reviews of movies up to this point on TCC because we’ve got a whiteboard.
[0:07:17 – 0:07:21] Adam: Now we got our new dry erase board here with a future list of TCC.
[0:07:21 – 0:07:25] Adam: But then once we start getting those grades compiled, we’re going to get those up there too.
[0:07:25 – 0:07:26] Adam: Yeah.
[0:07:26 – 0:07:27] Adam: Of existing TCC.
[0:07:29 – 0:07:29] Erik: Yeah.
[0:07:29 – 0:07:30] Erik: So look forward to that.
[0:07:30 – 0:07:35] Erik: And of course, you all know at this point, also sponsored by…
[0:07:37 – 0:07:41] Erik: Oh, a refrigerator full of beer, a dry cabinet full of beer.
[0:07:42 – 0:07:43] Adam: And a whole canoe full of beer.
[0:07:43 – 0:07:44] Erik: And a whole canoe.
[0:07:44 – 0:07:46] Erik: We need to start finding homes for these.
[0:07:46 – 0:07:49] Erik: It is actually a balmy like 65 in here tonight.
[0:07:50 – 0:07:52] Erik: No breaths to distract the reading.
[0:07:52 – 0:07:53] Adam: No heater on tonight.
[0:07:53 – 0:07:54] Adam: No heater.
[0:07:54 – 0:07:54] Adam: Here in the shed.
[0:07:55 – 0:07:57] Erik: I believe we’ve been sponsored by this brewery in the past.
[0:07:57 – 0:08:04] Erik: Maybe not this specific brew, but we’ve got some junk yard brewing here.
[0:08:05 – 0:08:06] Erik: Morehead.
[0:08:06 – 0:08:07] Erik: From Morehead, Minnesota.
[0:08:07 – 0:08:09] Erik: These are from Stephanie.
[0:08:09 – 0:08:10] Erik: You ever been to Morehead, Eric?
[0:08:12 – 0:08:13] Erik: I mean, I’ve been to Fargo.
[0:08:13 – 0:08:15] Erik: I think we had this conversation the last time.
[0:08:15 – 0:08:16] Erik: Oh, it’s over there.
[0:08:16 – 0:08:16] Erik: Yeah.
[0:08:16 – 0:08:16] Erik: Exactly.
[0:08:16 – 0:08:18] Erik: You’re like, where’s Moorhead?
[0:08:18 – 0:08:19] Erik: Oh, yeah.
[0:08:19 – 0:08:19] Erik: By Fargo.
[0:08:19 – 0:08:20] Adam: You’re like, oh, yeah.
[0:08:21 – 0:08:21] Adam: It’s definitely not.
[0:08:22 – 0:08:23] Adam: I didn’t do that on purpose.
[0:08:23 – 0:08:23] Adam: No.
[0:08:23 – 0:08:24] Adam: That’s for sure.
[0:08:24 – 0:08:24] Erik: No.
[0:08:25 – 0:08:27] Erik: This is a bad Larry.
[0:08:27 – 0:08:28] Erik: That’s in quotes.
[0:08:28 – 0:08:37] Erik: I don’t know why he’s bad, but apparently he’s into New England style IPAs with Azaka and Enigma.
[0:08:38 – 0:08:38] Erik: Yeah.
[0:08:38 – 0:08:40] Erik: He’s holding a big old catfish.
[0:08:40 – 0:08:41] Adam: Look at that thing.
[0:08:42 – 0:08:42] Adam: Red River cat.
[0:08:43 – 0:08:44] Erik: Well, thank you, Stephanie.
[0:08:46 – 0:08:47] Adam: Oh, those had some timber.
[0:08:47 – 0:08:51] Erik: That was some practice involved in that stereo cracking up.
[0:08:51 – 0:08:52] Adam: Crack them.
[0:08:53 – 0:08:54] Erik: That’s our new statement, right?
[0:08:59 – 0:09:00] Adam: Bad.
[0:09:00 – 0:09:01] Adam: Bad Larry.
[0:09:01 – 0:09:02] Adam: That’s bad.
[0:09:02 – 0:09:06] Adam: Yeah, that’s bad with two D’s.
[0:09:07 – 0:09:07] Adam: Bad Larry.
[0:09:08 – 0:09:09] Adam: Bad Larry.
[0:09:09 – 0:09:11] Adam: Bad Larry.
[0:09:11 – 0:09:13] Adam: No, no, no.
[0:09:15 – 0:09:16] Erik: Bad Larry.
[0:09:16 – 0:09:18] Erik: We’ve got a lot of vocals.
[0:09:18 – 0:09:19] Erik: We’re feeling musical tonight.
[0:09:19 – 0:09:21] Erik: We just watched Beauty and the Beast.
[0:09:21 – 0:09:22] Erik: I want to sing.
[0:09:22 – 0:09:26] Adam: I tell as old as time.
[0:09:26 – 0:09:29] Erik: Angela Lansbury.
[0:09:29 – 0:09:32] Erik: All exposition should be sung for the remainder of the night.
[0:09:34 – 0:09:36] Adam: Yeah, maybe that’s why I wanted to sing today.
[0:09:36 – 0:09:37] Adam: I didn’t put it together.
[0:09:37 – 0:09:39] Adam: It’s just because we just watched Beauty and the Beast.
[0:09:39 – 0:09:41] Adam: That’s why I was so singy and songy.
[0:09:41 – 0:09:42] Adam: Yeah.
[0:09:42 – 0:09:47] Erik: I was like, I’m going to watch all these songs on two times speed just to get through it.
[0:09:47 – 0:09:47] Erik: What?
[0:09:48 – 0:09:48] Erik: I didn’t.
[0:09:48 – 0:09:49] Erik: The best part.
[0:09:49 – 0:09:51] Erik: I was fully engaged.
[0:09:51 – 0:09:58] Erik: I’ve got some questions on the female Disney character trope.
[0:09:59 – 0:10:02] Erik: And if it’s problematic or not…
[0:10:03 – 0:10:04] Adam: It’s a problem.
[0:10:05 – 0:10:06] Adam: Bell’s a problem.
[0:10:08 – 0:10:09] Erik: So yeah, look forward to that.
[0:10:09 – 0:10:10] Erik: But thank you.
[0:10:10 – 0:10:11] Erik: Yes, these junkyard brewing.
[0:10:11 – 0:10:12] Adam: I think Gaston’s the problem.
[0:10:13 – 0:10:14] Erik: Well, he’s, yeah.
[0:10:14 – 0:10:15] Erik: I mean, of course he’s the problem.
[0:10:16 – 0:10:18] Adam: It’s the portrayal is what you’re talking about.
[0:10:18 – 0:10:23] Erik: Yeah, the portrayal of the, like, I don’t know what to do with my life.
[0:10:24 – 0:10:28] Erik: I’m a woman and I like to daydream.
[0:10:28 – 0:10:30] Adam: Well, yeah, I mean, obviously she shouldn’t have ever forgiven the beast.
[0:10:30 – 0:10:34] Adam: I mean, let’s just get down to the heart of the matter here.
[0:10:34 – 0:10:35] Adam: That’s ridiculous.
[0:10:35 – 0:10:36] Erik: Hey, don’t.
[0:10:36 – 0:10:37] Erik: We’re not going to get into it.
[0:10:37 – 0:10:38] Erik: You can’t get into it.
[0:10:38 – 0:10:39] Adam: All right, we’re not going to get into it.
[0:10:39 – 0:10:41] Adam: You’re going to have to get on the Patreon and find out.
[0:10:42 – 0:10:44] Adam: Tell us how you really feel about Gaston.
[0:10:44 – 0:10:50] Adam: Yeah, what are you giving this Junkyard Brewing from Moorhead, wherever that is?
[0:10:50 – 0:10:52] Erik: I’m going to give, yes, I don’t even know.
[0:10:52 – 0:10:53] Erik: Where is Moorhead?
[0:10:53 – 0:10:59] Erik: I’ll give this 7 out of 10 noodle arms in a mud hole.
[0:10:59 – 0:11:00] Erik: Noodle-ins.
[0:11:00 – 0:11:02] Erik: 7 out of 10 up to the elbows.
[0:11:02 – 0:11:03] Erik: All right, yeah.
[0:11:04 – 0:11:04] Adam: I agree.
[0:11:04 – 0:11:07] Adam: I’ll also give it a 7 out of 10 noodlers.
[0:11:07 – 0:11:07] Erik: Noodlers.
[0:11:09 – 0:11:11] Erik: Noodlers.
[0:11:11 – 0:11:16] Erik: Before you raven brain me, before you brand me, I’m going to fact check.
[0:11:16 – 0:11:17] Adam: Got to get to this.
[0:11:18 – 0:11:21] Erik: This is from Brian, talking locks and dams.
[0:11:22 – 0:11:22] Adam: Oh.
[0:11:22 – 0:11:23] Erik: We got some people out here.
[0:11:24 – 0:11:27] Adam: I hope they don’t tell us we can’t take the canoe in.
[0:11:27 – 0:11:29] Erik: Well, apparently we got a lot of people out.
[0:11:29 – 0:11:31] Erik: We got some river people listening to the show.
[0:11:31 – 0:11:34] Adam: You can’t mess with the locks and dams.
[0:11:34 – 0:11:37] Erik: We got barge folk posting barge pics.
[0:11:37 – 0:11:39] Erik: We got dam operators.
[0:11:39 – 0:11:41] Adam: Don’t mess with the river folk, Eric.
[0:11:41 – 0:11:43] Erik: Yeah, we’ve got some levee people.
[0:11:44 – 0:11:45] Erik: Oh.
[0:11:45 – 0:11:47] Adam: Well, I like the levee people.
[0:11:47 – 0:11:48] Erik: Yeah.
[0:11:48 – 0:11:49] Erik: Big fan.
[0:11:49 – 0:11:50] Erik: So this is from Brian.
[0:11:51 – 0:11:57] Erik: So yeah, we mentioned locks and suggested that you likely have to enter when other boats are also in the lock.
[0:11:58 – 0:12:00] Erik: Fact check.
[0:12:00 – 0:12:01] Erik: On the fly.
[0:12:01 – 0:12:03] Erik: Your canoe can be the only boat.
[0:12:04 – 0:12:11] Erik: Last spring, there were a couple of groups trying to canoe the whole Mississippi River and set world records.
[0:12:12 – 0:12:12] Adam: What?
[0:12:13 – 0:12:14] Adam: Nobody told us about this.
[0:12:14 – 0:12:16] Adam: Well, we’re being told right now.
[0:12:16 – 0:12:21] Adam: I wish I would have known, but, like, oh, yeah, I would have just dropped everything to join them, I guess.
[0:12:21 – 0:12:25] Erik: Yeah, yeah, you would have definitely joined in on the Verlin Kruger cruise.
[0:12:25 – 0:12:26] Erik: I mean.
[0:12:26 – 0:12:29] Erik: One of the groups came past my section of the river near Hastings.
[0:12:29 – 0:12:31] Erik: Shout out, Hastings.
[0:12:31 – 0:12:32] Erik: Hey.
[0:12:32 – 0:12:33] Erik: At about midnight.
[0:12:34 – 0:12:35] Erik: Rivertown days.
[0:12:35 – 0:12:35] Erik: That’s what I’m talking about.
[0:12:36 – 0:12:36] Erik: Rivertown days.
[0:12:37 – 0:12:38] Erik: The big old parade.
[0:12:38 – 0:12:39] Erik: Riverfront rendezvous.
[0:12:39 – 0:12:50] Erik: They got to make sure that the parade across the bridge, if they go lockstep each foot at the same time, there was a worry that the bridge might collapse.
[0:12:50 – 0:12:54] Erik: So they had to stagger their marching to make sure they didn’t reverberate the bridge.
[0:12:55 – 0:12:56] Erik: Oh.
[0:12:56 – 0:12:56] Erik: Yeah.
[0:12:56 – 0:12:57] Erik: There’s a fact check from me.
[0:12:57 – 0:12:58] Erik: I’m fact checking.
[0:12:58 – 0:12:59] Erik: A fact check.
[0:13:00 – 0:13:01] Erik: Incepta check.
[0:13:04 – 0:13:29] Erik: i’m intrigued yeah uh back to the fact check from brian i decided to go to the lock and see them go through hoot holler etc i mean why not they had to be on low energy in the middle of the night so a middle of the night lock movement i don’t like this middle of the night they open they they keep them going all night oh yeah i did not know this the river never i guess that makes sense you you gotta keep the keep the commerce of flowing
[0:13:30 – 0:13:55] Erik: gotta keep that commerce afloat and they’re i mean they’re looking to set world records so he wanted to go out and uh provide a verbal attaboy and some party horn horns i figured it would be a welcome sight and sound in the dark when i got to the lock since it was the middle of the night and i didn’t want to be arrested i called the lock to make sure it was okay for me to be there
[0:13:56 – 0:13:56] Erik: It was.
[0:13:57 – 0:13:58] Erik: So here’s the interesting thing.
[0:13:59 – 0:14:04] Erik: The lock master told me that the lock would be operated in the middle of the night for just a canoe.
[0:14:05 – 0:14:08] Erik: However, the lock requires two lock masters to operate.
[0:14:09 – 0:14:11] Erik: Two lock masters.
[0:14:11 – 0:14:11] Erik: Hmm.
[0:14:11 – 0:14:16] Erik: So they had to call the other guy in from Shakopee a 45 minute drive one way.
[0:14:18 – 0:14:24] Erik: So as a canoeist setting these records, you could force a poor soul out of bed at 12 o’clock.
[0:14:24 – 0:14:25] Adam: Hey, listen, you’re on call.
[0:14:25 – 0:14:26] Adam: We got to get you up here.
[0:14:27 – 0:14:30] Adam: We got a Grumman canoe needs to go through.
[0:14:30 – 0:14:31] Adam: We got a Grumman.
[0:14:31 – 0:14:32] Adam: Two in the morning.
[0:14:32 – 0:14:33] Erik: Bring your key.
[0:14:34 – 0:14:34] Adam: All right.
[0:14:34 – 0:14:35] Adam: We’re getting triple overtime.
[0:14:36 – 0:14:37] Adam: That’s crazy.
[0:14:37 – 0:14:41] Adam: Union mandated triple overtime, I assume.
[0:14:41 – 0:14:51] Erik: In short, they operated the lock for a single canoe at 12.30 a.m., forcing a lockmaster from Shakopee to make a 1.5-hour round trip to the lock from his home.
[0:14:51 – 0:14:53] Adam: Probably got paid mileage, too, and that’s good.
[0:14:53 – 0:14:55] Erik: Yeah, I’m sure that guy’s living the dream.
[0:14:55 – 0:14:59] Adam: It was also on Memorial Day, so quadruple, triple overtime.
[0:15:00 – 0:15:02] Erik: Yeah, and he was going to set world records.
[0:15:02 – 0:15:03] Adam: So did they set the record?
[0:15:04 – 0:15:04] Erik: Well, we’ll see.
[0:15:05 – 0:15:06] Erik: I thought that was pretty crazy.
[0:15:06 – 0:15:07] Erik: Yeah, that is pretty crazy.
[0:15:08 – 0:15:12] Erik: A barge ended up coming upriver while they waited to get into the lock, though.
[0:15:12 – 0:15:15] Erik: So in the end, the lock ran for both boats.
[0:15:15 – 0:15:17] Erik: The barge went up and the canoe went down.
[0:15:18 – 0:15:23] Erik: But I was assured they would have had full run the lock without the barge in it.
[0:15:25 – 0:15:25] Erik: Jeez.
[0:15:26 – 0:15:26] Erik: Okay.
[0:15:27 – 0:15:28] Adam: It’s maritime law right there.
[0:15:28 – 0:15:43] Erik: There was a portage available into and out of nearby Holding Pond that would have bypassed the lock, but that route would have also been about 45 minutes, so the world record-chasing team was better off using the 45 minutes to rest.
[0:15:44 – 0:15:45] Erik: Strategy.
[0:15:45 – 0:15:46] Erik: Interesting.
[0:15:47 – 0:15:47] Adam: Yeah, go for it.
[0:15:49 – 0:15:52] Adam: Pound a couple, you know, energy bars.
[0:15:53 – 0:15:54] Adam: Pound some power bars.
[0:15:54 – 0:15:58] Adam: Maybe a bush latte for hydration.
[0:15:59 – 0:16:00] Adam: I love it.
[0:16:00 – 0:16:01] Adam: Well, I didn’t know.
[0:16:02 – 0:16:03] Adam: How many locks do you think there are?
[0:16:03 – 0:16:06] Adam: How many lockmasters are there?
[0:16:06 – 0:16:07] Adam: We’re not going to get into this.
[0:16:07 – 0:16:08] Adam: It’s too much.
[0:16:08 – 0:16:11] Erik: All you’re doing is proffering more fact checks.
[0:16:11 – 0:16:13] Adam: No, I retract the question.
[0:16:14 – 0:16:16] Erik: We don’t want to know how many locks there are.
[0:16:16 – 0:16:18] Adam: I am interested, but I don’t want to know.
[0:16:18 – 0:16:20] Adam: Actually, I prefer to remain in the dark on this one.
[0:16:21 – 0:16:24] Erik: Let it be known, Lockmasters, we do not want to hear from you.
[0:16:28 – 0:16:29] Adam: Well, I do appreciate this.
[0:16:29 – 0:16:31] Adam: I bet they got a lot of stories, though, those Lockmasters.
[0:16:32 – 0:16:33] Adam: Yeah, for sure.
[0:16:33 – 0:16:40] Adam: I always thought, you know, the people who unlock doors, they probably got a lot of stories.
[0:16:41 – 0:16:45] Adam: But the Lockmasters, too, a different kind of, you know.
[0:16:46 – 0:16:48] Adam: A different kind of puzzle to solve, really.
[0:16:48 – 0:16:49] Erik: Yeah, a different kind of sort.
[0:16:51 – 0:16:52] Erik: Well, thanks either way, Brian.
[0:16:52 – 0:16:58] Erik: And also, really, if there aren’t interesting enough responses from Lockmasters, we’ll take the emails.
[0:16:58 – 0:17:00] Erik: Tumblehomecast at gmail.com.
[0:17:00 – 0:17:01] Erik: I retract my statement.
[0:17:01 – 0:17:02] Erik: Lockmasters, let’s do it.
[0:17:02 – 0:17:08] Adam: Hit us up on Instagram in the DMs, Instagram, Tomahomecast on Instagram, the picture app.
[0:17:09 – 0:17:16] Adam: And I did just post a little video of our new whiteboard with the Tomahome Cinema Classics upcoming list on there.
[0:17:16 – 0:17:20] Adam: If you have any suggestions, also hit us up on the aforementioned channels.
[0:17:21 – 0:17:22] Adam: And I’m not talking about the channels of the river here.
[0:17:22 – 0:17:24] Adam: I’m talking about social media.
[0:17:25 – 0:17:29] Adam: It’s amazing new technology you can use to communicate with each other.
[0:17:31 – 0:17:51] Adam: uh so we were doing our fantasy football draft a couple weeks ago and the power went out literally 10 minutes before the draft’s supposed to start oh no like what the heck is going on here guys so i waited about two minutes and then uh i didn’t natalie’s like just drive for the internet you gotta go for the data
[0:17:51 – 0:17:58] Adam: So I quick hopped in the car with my phone and drove out to the overlook where I could get a signal and drafted from my phone.
[0:17:59 – 0:18:00] Adam: Oh, wow, nice.
[0:18:00 – 0:18:05] Adam: Made it just in time, and some dirty bastard sniped me on Devante Adams right in front of me.
[0:18:05 – 0:18:07] Adam: This is the guillotine league we’re in.
[0:18:07 – 0:18:09] Adam: It’s not the regular league.
[0:18:09 – 0:18:11] Erik: You’re not going to divulge who the dirty bastard is?
[0:18:11 – 0:18:12] Adam: Yeah, it’s Peter Primo.
[0:18:13 – 0:18:15] Adam: E-S, Peter Primo.
[0:18:16 – 0:18:17] Adam: You know who you are.
[0:18:17 – 0:18:20] Adam: Well, it seems like a pretty specific name.
[0:18:22 – 0:18:26] Adam: I think it was one of those things where Yahoo assigns a fake team name to you, actually.
[0:18:26 – 0:18:31] Adam: I think his name was probably just Peter something, and stupid Yahoo called him Peter Primo.
[0:18:31 – 0:18:32] Adam: But anyways, you know who you are.
[0:18:33 – 0:18:34] Adam: I hate you.
[0:18:34 – 0:18:38] Erik: Did they not reset their image from the football jersey or helmet?
[0:18:38 – 0:18:44] Adam: No, it’s just the stupid plain purple helmet, too, with a little P on it.
[0:18:44 – 0:18:48] Erik: You should start in the hole for points if you don’t change your image.
[0:18:48 – 0:18:51] Adam: Every week, you get a penalty for not changing your image.
[0:18:51 – 0:18:52] Adam: That’s ridiculous.
[0:18:52 – 0:18:57] Erik: I want to get involved in fantasy sports, but I don’t want to have any fun with it.
[0:18:57 – 0:18:57] Adam: Yeah.
[0:18:58 – 0:19:01] Erik: Take a half a second to find a fun image.
[0:19:01 – 0:19:01] Adam: Yeah.
[0:19:01 – 0:19:08] Adam: I don’t even have a thought in my mind to go ahead and think up a cool team name and an image that corresponds to it.
[0:19:08 – 0:19:09] Adam: I’m just going to go with the default.
[0:19:10 – 0:19:10] Adam: Yeah.
[0:19:10 – 0:19:11] Adam: You might as well just auto-draft then.
[0:19:11 – 0:19:13] Adam: Then you wouldn’t have picked Devante Adams.
[0:19:14 – 0:19:15] Adam: You troglodyte.
[0:19:15 – 0:19:16] Erik: There we go.
[0:19:16 – 0:19:20] Adam: Anyways, I’m not just talking about this just to talk about fantasy football, obviously.
[0:19:20 – 0:19:22] Adam: Nobody cares about fantasy football anymore.
[0:19:22 – 0:19:22] Adam: We all care.
[0:19:22 – 0:19:28] Adam: All my homies love fantasy hockey, and La Poutine Deluxe League is looking for members.
[0:19:28 – 0:19:29] Adam: Our draft is next week.
[0:19:30 – 0:19:30] Adam: No, we’re not.
[0:19:30 – 0:19:31] Erik: We’re full.
[0:19:31 – 0:19:31] Erik: We’re at 10.
[0:19:31 – 0:19:33] Adam: Well, we could go to 12, though.
[0:19:33 – 0:19:34] Adam: We could go to 12.
[0:19:34 – 0:19:40] Adam: So if there’s two brave souls out there who are getting this message on Sunday, there’s still time for you.
[0:19:40 – 0:19:44] Adam: The draft is on Wednesday the 6th, I believe, of October.
[0:19:44 – 0:19:45] Erik: Yes, Wednesday the 6th.
[0:19:46 – 0:19:48] Adam: We’ll go ahead and give you a bonus Ron Sheriff fact for this.
[0:19:49 – 0:19:52] Adam: It’s the new moon, by the way, on the 6th.
[0:19:53 – 0:19:55] Adam: Here’s the Ron Scher Outdoor Calendar fact for the 6th.
[0:19:56 – 0:19:58] Adam: Frogs burrow into muddy pond bottoms.
[0:19:59 – 0:20:07] Erik: I mean, if you don’t send an email to goquetico at gmail.com to sign up and make this league a 12-member team.
[0:20:07 – 0:20:09] Adam: That’s your problem, not ours.
[0:20:09 – 0:20:12] Erik: And also Muddy Frog Bottoms is your team name.
[0:20:12 – 0:20:13] Erik: Yeah.
[0:20:13 – 0:20:14] Adam: You’re missing out.
[0:20:14 – 0:20:18] Adam: You really, it’s a missed opportunity, and we’re honestly just spitballing this one here.
[0:20:18 – 0:20:19] Adam: But we do have 10 right now.
[0:20:19 – 0:20:21] Adam: We could go up to 12 if we’ve got two more members.
[0:20:22 – 0:20:24] Adam: And who wants to go for the Eagle Cup?
[0:20:25 – 0:20:26] Adam: It’s an amazing trophy.
[0:20:27 – 0:20:28] Adam: It’s right there on the shelf behind me.
[0:20:29 – 0:20:29] Adam: Looking right at it.
[0:20:29 – 0:20:33] Adam: There’s old Eagly looking for a new champion and hero.
[0:20:33 – 0:20:36] Adam: Anyways, the whole reason I talk about this is during the…
[0:20:37 – 0:21:00] Adam: the guillotine fantasy football draft when the power went out the reason it went out eric is because a raven a raven flew into a transformer oh i thought he was going after the shiny thing but one way or the other a raven took out the colville electric substation bad in a bad way yeah i mean we’re out we’re out for hours on that one i got i got back from the draft
[0:21:01 – 0:21:23] Adam: natalie’s folks are in this league and i saw them out at the overlook too and then we all went back home after still we’re out we’re at candle power for hours and uh it was all because of a raven we found out like three days later so while i did say they are uh smarter than dolphins earlier and i do stand by that one of them did just totally just fly right into the transformer and
[0:21:23 – 0:21:25] Adam: And almost ruined my guillotine draft.
[0:21:26 – 0:21:30] Adam: So, I mean, it’s not Peter Primo’s fault I didn’t get Devante.
[0:21:30 – 0:21:31] Adam: It’s not the Raven’s fault, really.
[0:21:31 – 0:21:34] Adam: It’s just that’s the nature of reality.
[0:21:34 – 0:21:35] Erik: Poor Raven.
[0:21:35 – 0:21:39] Adam: Anyways, RIP to the Raven at the Colville Electric Substation.
[0:21:40 – 0:21:45] Adam: And, you know, obviously you’re up to no good or whatever.
[0:21:46 – 0:21:47] Adam: Why would you do something like that?
[0:21:47 – 0:21:49] Adam: But the point is they’re curious birds.
[0:21:50 – 0:21:50] Adam: Yes.
[0:21:50 – 0:21:52] Adam: You know, so…
[0:21:52 – 0:21:53] Adam: Well, I don’t know.
[0:21:53 – 0:21:54] Erik: You’re going to tell me.
[0:21:54 – 0:21:55] Erik: We will tell you.
[0:21:55 – 0:21:56] Erik: Are we ready to get into it?
[0:21:56 – 0:21:59] Erik: Yeah, before you delve in, one last thing on the beer sponsor.
[0:22:00 – 0:22:08] Erik: The timeliness of them needing to be cracked was a factor, but then also the color scheme of these Junkyard Brewing Bad Larrys.
[0:22:08 – 0:22:09] Erik: That is true.
[0:22:09 – 0:22:12] Erik: Are straight up sports team.
[0:22:13 – 0:22:14] Adam: Speaking of sport.
[0:22:14 – 0:22:17] Erik: Sport team Raven colors, black and purple.
[0:22:18 – 0:22:18] Adam: There we go.
[0:22:20 – 0:22:20] Adam: Ravens.
[0:22:20 – 0:22:21] Adam: Baltimore.
[0:22:21 – 0:22:22] Adam: Baltimore.
[0:22:22 – 0:22:22] Adam: Yes.
[0:22:22 – 0:22:22] Adam: Yeah.
[0:22:23 – 0:22:23] Adam: Ravens.
[0:22:24 – 0:22:26] Adam: Give Tyson Williams the run.
[0:22:26 – 0:22:29] Adam: What are you doing giving Latavius Murray the ball?
[0:22:29 – 0:22:30] Adam: You idiots.
[0:22:30 – 0:22:32] Adam: More troglodytes, Eric.
[0:22:32 – 0:22:33] Erik: I’m just going to head out.
[0:22:33 – 0:22:35] Erik: Your levels are way too high.
[0:22:37 – 0:22:40] Erik: I recognize 75% of those words.
[0:22:40 – 0:22:40] Adam: I told you.
[0:22:40 – 0:22:47] Adam: Well, I never did follow up on having a fantasy football podcast, but we probably will actually record the fantasy hockey draft.
[0:22:48 – 0:22:52] Adam: And we’ll put it up on Patreon for free for anybody.
[0:22:52 – 0:22:56] Adam: If anybody cares about fantasy hockey, you can listen to our thought process and who we picked.
[0:22:57 – 0:22:59] Adam: Eric knows a lot about hockey, watches more hockey than I do.
[0:23:00 – 0:23:02] Adam: I have won the Eagle Cup, though.
[0:23:03 – 0:23:03] Adam: That’s true.
[0:23:03 – 0:23:09] Adam: So actually knowing anything about hockey doesn’t really matter for fantasy hockey, but it’s a good way to learn about hockey.
[0:23:09 – 0:23:12] Adam: I’ll say that if you want to get into hockey, that’s a good way to do it.
[0:23:13 – 0:23:17] Erik: Yeah, and you can continue looking forward to my ramblings from the road.
[0:23:18 – 0:23:21] Erik: Those are probably going to be coming out midweek for a few weeks here.
[0:23:21 – 0:23:22] Erik: Take them or leave them.
[0:23:23 – 0:23:24] Erik: Yeah.
[0:23:24 – 0:23:25] Erik: I’ll take them.
[0:23:25 – 0:23:27] Erik: It’s free thought, and I have fun making them.
[0:23:28 – 0:23:29] Erik: I don’t care if you don’t like them.
[0:23:30 – 0:23:32] Erik: Just don’t listen to them.
[0:23:32 – 0:23:32] Adam: Yeah.
[0:23:33 – 0:23:33] Erik: I don’t know.
[0:23:33 – 0:23:34] Adam: That’s just common sense.
[0:23:35 – 0:23:36] Adam: How can you not like them?
[0:23:36 – 0:23:37] Erik: I don’t know.
[0:23:37 – 0:23:39] Erik: I’m sure there’s some people that don’t like them.
[0:23:39 – 0:23:40] Erik: It has nothing to do with the Boundary Waters.
[0:23:41 – 0:23:47] Erik: It’s a bunch of long pauses and thoughts from an overly contemplative man.
[0:23:48 – 0:23:49] Adam: One out of five stars.
[0:23:49 – 0:23:50] Adam: Too much train noise.
[0:23:50 – 0:23:51] Adam: Too many train dings.
[0:23:51 – 0:23:52] Adam: Yeah.
[0:23:52 – 0:23:55] Adam: I don’t like trains or prairies.
[0:23:56 – 0:23:58] Adam: Yeah, they’re worth checking out for sure.
[0:23:58 – 0:24:02] Adam: I really thought the soundscape on the first episode was quite amazing.
[0:24:03 – 0:24:04] Adam: I enjoyed it quite a bit.
[0:24:04 – 0:24:05] Erik: Well, stay tuned.
[0:24:05 – 0:24:07] Erik: I have a panic attack in a national park.
[0:24:07 – 0:24:08] Adam: Well, that’s fun.
[0:24:09 – 0:24:10] Adam: All right.
[0:24:10 – 0:24:16] Adam: Well, one more thing before we get into the meat, though, and this is also related to the Colville Electric substation.
[0:24:16 – 0:24:25] Adam: I don’t know why I’m talking in quick trip font right now, but Raven’s also… You’re lightly pointing at me.
[0:24:25 – 0:24:30] Adam: I’m going to keep pointing at you like this for the remainder of the episode as I make points.
[0:24:30 – 0:24:31] Adam: Ravens do have funerals.
[0:24:32 – 0:24:33] Adam: What are you doing with your hand?
[0:24:34 – 0:24:59] Adam: ravens do have funerals also it’s so that i know you’re making a point point point taken well point of order point of order i am ready to eat some crow and starlings also corvax let’s eat all right i’m just saying though they do have funerals not many animals actually hold a funeral so do you think they held a funeral for the colville substation bird
[0:24:59 – 0:25:00] Adam: No, that bird was an idiot.
[0:25:00 – 0:25:02] Adam: Probably got exploded, honestly.
[0:25:02 – 0:25:07] Adam: All right, Mind of the Raven, Bernd Heinrich, 1999.
[0:25:08 – 0:25:10] Adam: Corvus corvax.
[0:25:10 – 0:25:18] Adam: Found across the northern hemisphere in almost every kind of ecosystem, they are the most widely distributed and intelligent of the corvids.
[0:25:19 – 0:25:22] Adam: At maturity, ravens average 25 inches in length.
[0:25:23 – 0:25:26] Adam: They can live for 25 years in the wild, longer in captivity,
[0:25:27 – 0:25:33] Adam: Birds usually mate for life, although not every bird is high enough in the pecking order to actually mate.
[0:25:34 – 0:25:35] Adam: Most ravens don’t ever mate.
[0:25:36 – 0:25:40] Adam: You’ve got to be like a real Gaston to actually mate.
[0:25:41 – 0:25:42] Erik: Most never mate.
[0:25:42 – 0:25:43] Adam: Most of them don’t.
[0:25:43 – 0:25:45] Adam: The vast majority do not.
[0:25:45 – 0:25:47] Erik: So they’re like the opposite of rabbits.
[0:25:48 – 0:25:49] Adam: Yeah, like not on purpose.
[0:25:50 – 0:25:52] Adam: I mean, they’re always trying, but they will get pecked.
[0:25:52 – 0:25:55] Adam: And this is like a legit pecking order.
[0:25:55 – 0:25:56] Adam: They will peck their eyes out.
[0:25:57 – 0:25:59] Adam: Don’t mess with the king.
[0:25:59 – 0:26:00] Adam: Here’s the other thing.
[0:26:01 – 0:26:02] Adam: Now I’m really pointing.
[0:26:02 – 0:26:03] Erik: Yes, you are.
[0:26:03 – 0:26:05] Adam: So they have a white eyelid that blinks sideways.
[0:26:06 – 0:26:18] Adam: But the way you can tell what the baddest bird in the yard is, is when they’re young and low on the pecking order, their mouth inside their beak is colored like your mouth, like pink.
[0:26:18 – 0:26:19] Adam: Like a…
[0:26:20 – 0:26:21] Adam: That was a little weird.
[0:26:21 – 0:26:23] Adam: Specifically my mouth?
[0:26:23 – 0:26:24] Adam: Just Eric’s mouth.
[0:26:24 – 0:26:24] Adam: Just my mouth.
[0:26:24 – 0:26:26] Adam: No, like a normal mouth.
[0:26:27 – 0:26:29] Adam: It’s like pink, fleshy colored on the inside.
[0:26:29 – 0:26:35] Adam: But when you’re like the king bird, their tongue and everything is black as night.
[0:26:35 – 0:26:37] Erik: Black as night.
[0:26:37 – 0:26:40] Erik: You’re making some interesting choices already.
[0:26:40 – 0:26:41] Erik: Black as night.
[0:26:43 – 0:26:44] Adam: Yeah, on a new moon.
[0:26:47 – 0:26:47] Adam: Isn’t that weird?
[0:26:48 – 0:26:50] Erik: And that’s from adolescence?
[0:26:50 – 0:26:50] Erik: Yeah.
[0:26:50 – 0:26:52] Erik: You can like note, you can see, well, that one’s going to be.
[0:26:52 – 0:26:54] Adam: Well, it won’t happen in adolescence.
[0:26:54 – 0:26:56] Adam: It’s like by year two and they’re becoming mature.
[0:26:57 – 0:27:06] Adam: Then like the higher, the birds higher up in the hierarchy of the like little group or whatever, they’ll like develop blacker mouths.
[0:27:06 – 0:27:07] Erik: So the blacker the mouth, the.
[0:27:08 – 0:27:09] Adam: The more seniority or whatever.
[0:27:09 – 0:27:10] Adam: Yeah.
[0:27:10 – 0:27:12] Adam: The higher up you are on the pecking order.
[0:27:13 – 0:27:13] Erik: Nice.
[0:27:14 – 0:27:14] Adam: Yeah.
[0:27:14 – 0:27:15] Adam: I don’t know.
[0:27:15 – 0:27:17] Adam: Don’t giraffes have black like tongues too?
[0:27:18 – 0:27:19] Erik: Yeah, big black wiggly.
[0:27:20 – 0:27:21] Adam: And some snakes.
[0:27:22 – 0:27:23] Adam: Other than that, that’s the only ones.
[0:27:24 – 0:27:25] Adam: Some snakes.
[0:27:25 – 0:27:27] Adam: I felt it was a little weird.
[0:27:27 – 0:27:30] Adam: It made me a little uncomfortable, just like, eh.
[0:27:31 – 0:27:32] Adam: Death mouth.
[0:27:32 – 0:27:33] Erik: Yeah, I mean, I don’t know.
[0:27:34 – 0:27:40] Erik: I have no idea what that would be attributed to in terms of why the blacker the mouth, the higher on the pecking order.
[0:27:40 – 0:27:42] Erik: Is it just something that occurs naturally?
[0:27:43 – 0:27:44] Adam: Yeah, I guess so, yeah.
[0:27:45 – 0:28:07] Adam: well i don’t hire i guess they’re still like up for grabs on why are you gonna explain to me the difference between ravens and crows not really i’m not crows and starlings aren’t worth really talking about but they are we don’t have a ton of them we do have some crow up here but mostly if you’re in the boundary waters here’s the other thing if you see a you know a corvus or whatever it’s a corvid sorry
[0:28:08 – 0:28:09] Adam: It’s a raven.
[0:28:09 – 0:28:09] Adam: It is a raven.
[0:28:09 – 0:28:12] Adam: I mean, you might see a crow, but probably not.
[0:28:12 – 0:28:15] Adam: Ravens are- If you’re north of Duluth, you’re probably not seeing too many crow.
[0:28:15 – 0:28:17] Adam: You’ll see them around, but- Ravens are larger.
[0:28:18 – 0:28:18] Adam: Big, yeah.
[0:28:19 – 0:28:19] Adam: They’re the big ones.
[0:28:20 – 0:28:20] Adam: Okay.
[0:28:20 – 0:28:21] Adam: They’re everywhere, too.
[0:28:22 – 0:28:28] Adam: Normally, on these kind of book report episodes, we’re like, this is an animal that’s pretty much exclusively found in this area.
[0:28:29 – 0:28:30] Adam: Ravens are everywhere.
[0:28:30 – 0:28:31] Adam: They’re pretty widely distributed.
[0:28:31 – 0:28:33] Adam: They live in the boundary waters.
[0:28:33 – 0:28:34] Adam: They live in cities.
[0:28:35 – 0:28:36] Adam: They live in the deserts.
[0:28:37 – 0:28:39] Adam: Like the high country, everything.
[0:28:39 – 0:28:41] Adam: River valleys, they live everywhere.
[0:28:41 – 0:28:44] Adam: They’re very adaptable also because they’re so smart.
[0:28:45 – 0:28:47] Adam: You ever seen a dolphin in the Boundary Waters?
[0:28:47 – 0:28:49] Adam: I don’t think so.
[0:28:49 – 0:28:51] Adam: Ravens live on the beach and they live up here too.
[0:28:52 – 0:28:53] Adam: I mean, they live everywhere.
[0:28:53 – 0:28:54] Adam: Pretty cool.
[0:28:55 – 0:28:57] Adam: They’re pretty cool birds, Eric.
[0:28:57 – 0:28:57] Erik: These guys are pretty cool.
[0:28:58 – 0:29:00] Adam: All right, so this is probably going to be a two-parter.
[0:29:00 – 0:29:10] Adam: I’m going to go ahead and call it right now because I got way too many notes on this, but I am going to be reading some passages from the book because there’s just no way I could ever explain this as well as Berndt could explain it.
[0:29:11 – 0:29:11] Adam: Berndt.
[0:29:11 – 0:29:13] Adam: Berndt, Henrik.
[0:29:13 – 0:29:22] Adam: So I got them kind of broken up into little chapters, so I’ll just try and read through these, and then we can chat a little, and we’ll see where this goes.
[0:29:22 – 0:29:23] Adam: Does that sound okay?
[0:29:23 – 0:29:24] Erik: That sounds like a good place to start.
[0:29:25 – 0:29:26] Adam: Alright, here we go.
[0:29:27 – 0:29:32] Adam: With other animals, you can usually throw 90% of the stories you hear about them as exaggerations.
[0:29:32 – 0:29:34] Adam: With ravens, it’s the opposite.
[0:29:35 – 0:29:41] Adam: No matter how strange or amazing the story, chances are pretty good that at least some raven somewhere actually did that.
[0:29:41 – 0:29:44] Adam: That is because ravens are individuals.
[0:29:45 – 0:29:50] Adam: Ultimately, knowing all that goes on in their brains is, like infinity, unreachable information.
[0:29:52 – 0:29:54] Adam: The interesting part is the journey.
[0:29:55 – 0:30:00] Adam: The first prerequisite to studying any animal is to get and to stay very close.
[0:30:01 – 0:30:08] Adam: You must be able to observe the fine detail of its behavior for long periods of time without the animal seeing or feeling your presence.
[0:30:09 – 0:30:12] Adam: That’s a tall order with a wild raven in northeastern America.
[0:30:12 – 0:30:21] Adam: In my part of the country, where food is sparsely distributed, ravens may range over 100 square miles a day, and they fly away at the mere sight of a human.
[0:30:22 – 0:30:32] Adam: Ravens are shyer and more alert and have keener vision than any other wild animal I know, making it even more difficult to watch their natural, undisturbed behavior.
[0:30:35 – 0:30:41] Adam: Given these difficulties, I felt I needed to try to obtain young and to be a surrogate parent to them.
[0:30:42 – 0:30:46] Adam: It was perhaps the only way to learn about many aspects of their intimate social behavior.
[0:30:47 – 0:30:54] Adam: Obtaining and living with young ravens has its inconveniences, not the least of which is making the hazardous ascent to get them from the nest.
[0:30:55 – 0:31:00] Adam: The trees that ravens like to nest in are not the ones I like to climb.”
[0:31:01 – 0:31:05] Adam: Yeah, so he’s definitely kidnapping baby ravens.
[0:31:06 – 0:31:06] Adam: First chapter.
[0:31:08 – 0:31:09] Adam: First chapter.
[0:31:09 – 0:31:11] Adam: He talks about climbing these pine trees or whatever.
[0:31:12 – 0:31:13] Adam: He’s in Vermont, by the way.
[0:31:15 – 0:31:21] Adam: If anybody reads the book, he’ll talk way more about this, but the way he climbs these pine trees, incredible.
[0:31:22 – 0:31:22] Adam: It makes me queasy.
[0:31:23 – 0:31:26] Adam: I’m quite nervous about heights and heights.
[0:31:27 – 0:31:39] Adam: Anyways, you don’t want to be in a pine tree that’s swaying, trying to kidnap baby ravens out of a nest while their parents are right there on your shoulder trying to get you.
[0:31:40 – 0:31:46] Erik: So he actually was actively trying to make off with baby ravens?
[0:31:46 – 0:31:47] Adam: Oh, he wasn’t trying to.
[0:31:47 – 0:31:48] Adam: He did.
[0:31:49 – 0:31:51] Erik: What’s the guy from Shawshank Redemption?
[0:31:52 – 0:31:59] Erik: The library guy that had the raven in his pocket and then he went into the free world and couldn’t handle it and hung himself.
[0:32:00 – 0:32:00] Erik: Spoiler.
[0:32:02 – 0:32:02] Adam: Morgan Freeman?
[0:32:03 – 0:32:05] Erik: No, Morgan Freeman didn’t.
[0:32:05 – 0:32:07] Erik: He just went up there and carved his name on the thing.
[0:32:07 – 0:32:08] Adam: Andy Dufresne.
[0:32:09 – 0:32:10] Erik: No, the old man.
[0:32:10 – 0:32:13] Erik: The old man had the little raven that he fed in his pocket.
[0:32:14 – 0:32:15] Adam: Well, yeah, what was that old guy’s name?
[0:32:17 – 0:32:18] Adam: Probably some other color.
[0:32:18 – 0:32:19] Adam: Can’t handle it.
[0:32:20 – 0:32:22] Adam: Anyways, yeah, like 93, Maine, Vermont.
[0:32:22 – 0:32:23] Adam: I don’t know.
[0:32:23 – 0:32:24] Adam: You would think about this, too.
[0:32:26 – 0:32:26] Adam: Think about this.
[0:32:26 – 0:32:28] Adam: Brief side tangent.
[0:32:28 – 0:32:35] Adam: If aliens were trying to study us, they wouldn’t be able to learn anything about us because you can’t get too close.
[0:32:35 – 0:32:36] Adam: Unless they can shapeshift, of course.
[0:32:36 – 0:32:43] Adam: But, you know, that’s the only way to really know an intelligent being is not to, like, kidnap it from Earth and study it.
[0:32:44 – 0:32:45] Adam: Yeah, I guess.
[0:32:46 – 0:32:46] Adam: That’s comforting.
[0:32:49 – 0:32:52] Adam: Uh, they, they eat just about anything.
[0:32:52 – 0:32:54] Adam: What do you think a Raven’s favorite food might be?
[0:32:55 – 0:32:56] Adam: You think they’d, uh, favorite food?
[0:32:57 – 0:32:57] Adam: Yeah.
[0:32:57 – 0:32:58] Adam: What would you feed?
[0:32:58 – 0:33:03] Adam: I guess if you found a, if you had a little baby Raven in your pocket or your shirt, what would you try and feed it first?
[0:33:04 – 0:33:10] Erik: Well, I mean, I guess that’s a, a question as to what I would feed it versus what its favorite was.
[0:33:10 – 0:33:13] Erik: Cause if it was just me, probably some kind of a worm.
[0:33:14 – 0:33:14] Adam: There you go.
[0:33:15 – 0:33:16] Adam: That’ll work, yeah.
[0:33:16 – 0:33:16] Adam: Chopped frog.
[0:33:17 – 0:33:17] Erik: It’s favorite.
[0:33:17 – 0:33:20] Erik: It’s probably like roadkill deer eyeballs.
[0:33:20 – 0:33:22] Adam: They love eyeballs, yeah, for sure.
[0:33:22 – 0:33:23] Adam: They eat a lot of eyeballs.
[0:33:23 – 0:33:26] Adam: They’ll eat anything is the short answer.
[0:33:26 – 0:33:32] Adam: Chopped frogs, minced mice, grubs, eggs, whole eggs, raw, hard-boiled.
[0:33:33 – 0:33:39] Erik: Baby ravens and then had a whole buffet of things, and then it was like, oh, yep.
[0:33:39 – 0:33:44] Adam: He would just try and feed them anything, and they would rarely ever turn it down.
[0:33:44 – 0:34:02] Adam: lean pockets love the lean pockets love them yeah prefer regular diesel pizza biters they love them he gave them pizza biters for sure that’s a rock fact they love them the only thing they like wouldn’t eat was a dead raven basically
[0:34:02 – 0:34:03] Erik: Oh, wow, yeah.
[0:34:03 – 0:34:05] Adam: Yeah, they don’t want to eat another raven.
[0:34:05 – 0:34:06] Erik: No cannibalism?
[0:34:06 – 0:34:08] Adam: No, they wouldn’t kill a raven.
[0:34:09 – 0:34:11] Adam: He had a couple of different pens of ravens.
[0:34:11 – 0:34:13] Adam: This guy was a bit of a raven guy.
[0:34:14 – 0:34:15] Erik: Do you think you can still get away?
[0:34:15 – 0:34:18] Erik: What’s the regulations on keeping a raven?
[0:34:18 – 0:34:21] Erik: Yeah, I was like, what’s the regulations on the science behind this?
[0:34:21 – 0:34:27] Adam: It’s way easier to get an aviary permit than a kennel permit, even in Cook County.
[0:34:28 – 0:34:29] Erik: Well, yeah, because dogs are cute.
[0:34:30 – 0:34:34] Adam: No, I’m saying it’s easier to get a bird permit than a dog.
[0:34:34 – 0:34:37] Adam: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.
[0:34:37 – 0:34:38] Erik: Yeah, because whatever, birds.
[0:34:39 – 0:34:42] Erik: I can’t liken birds to anything, but dogs, it’s like, oh, dogs.
[0:34:43 – 0:34:45] Erik: Or, God forbid, any kind of primate.
[0:34:46 – 0:34:47] Adam: Yeah, that ain’t legal.
[0:34:48 – 0:34:48] Adam: No.
[0:34:48 – 0:34:52] Adam: We’re never doing an episode on big cats, I hope.
[0:34:52 – 0:34:53] Erik: Big cats, big ape.
[0:34:54 – 0:34:55] Erik: Maybe we are.
[0:34:55 – 0:34:57] Erik: Next up, Jane Goodall.
[0:34:57 – 0:34:58] Erik: What was she up to out there?
[0:34:59 – 0:35:01] Adam: So he kidnapped these four birds.
[0:35:01 – 0:35:02] Adam: Do you want to know their names?
[0:35:02 – 0:35:03] Adam: Birdnapped.
[0:35:03 – 0:35:07] Adam: Goliath, Lefty, Hootie, and Fuzz.
[0:35:07 – 0:35:09] Adam: This is his first brood or whatever.
[0:35:09 – 0:35:16] Adam: He just snatched them right from the nest, climbed down the tree, threw them in his backpack, and climbed right down the tree.
[0:35:17 – 0:35:18] Adam: He kept them.
[0:35:19 – 0:35:22] Adam: And the parents are just like, I don’t know, I guess.
[0:35:22 – 0:35:24] Adam: Well, that sucks for the parents.
[0:35:24 – 0:35:28] Erik: Is there any indication from Berndt that there was a feeling of loss?
[0:35:29 – 0:35:30] Adam: They loved him immediately.
[0:35:31 – 0:35:32] Adam: Like, on the babies?
[0:35:32 – 0:35:32] Adam: No.
[0:35:32 – 0:35:34] Erik: No, from the parents.
[0:35:34 – 0:35:35] Adam: They just looked confused.
[0:35:35 – 0:35:39] Adam: Like, they didn’t, like, really bother him too much.
[0:35:41 – 0:35:43] Adam: But they were just like, what the hell is going on?
[0:35:44 – 0:35:46] Adam: This monkey is stealing our babies?
[0:35:46 – 0:35:46] Adam: No, I don’t know.
[0:35:46 – 0:35:49] Adam: They didn’t, like, try and really attack, I guess.
[0:35:50 – 0:35:52] Adam: But, I mean, how many times has that even happened?
[0:35:52 – 0:35:54] Adam: They nest way up on the top of a pine tree.
[0:35:54 – 0:35:56] Erik: No, I’m sure that it’s not something that they can relate to.
[0:35:56 – 0:36:00] Adam: Evolutionarily not able to comprehend what is happening.
[0:36:00 – 0:36:02] Erik: But that also makes me feel sad.
[0:36:03 – 0:36:04] Erik: Yeah, no, I did.
[0:36:04 – 0:36:05] Erik: I was like, is this what this book is about?
[0:36:06 – 0:36:07] Erik: Looking right, like, where am I?
[0:36:08 – 0:36:09] Erik: Not in a way where they’re…
[0:36:09 – 0:36:12] Erik: I mean, for Christ’s sake, you say they have funerals.
[0:36:12 – 0:36:14] Erik: They must notice that they have children.
[0:36:14 – 0:36:16] Adam: Yeah, they don’t have that.
[0:36:16 – 0:36:24] Adam: Basically, if the chicks lived and made it to adulthood, they would only be around for maybe a year or whatever.
[0:36:24 – 0:36:27] Adam: Anyways, it’s not, you know, it’s not like they live together for life or anything either.
[0:36:28 – 0:36:32] Adam: Eventually the chicks fly off, you know, make their own, make their own life.
[0:36:32 – 0:36:34] Erik: Maybe they just fell out of the tree.
[0:36:34 – 0:36:34] Adam: Yeah.
[0:36:35 – 0:36:40] Adam: You know, I think like probably just naturally, like most chicks don’t actually live to adulthood.
[0:36:40 – 0:36:43] Adam: So they’re not like hardwired to like feel that kind of grief.
[0:36:43 – 0:36:45] Adam: But now we’re really like stretching.
[0:36:45 – 0:36:48] Adam: I don’t think this, this was never really covered in the book.
[0:36:49 – 0:36:49] Adam: Yeah.
[0:36:50 – 0:36:50] Adam: And I have no idea.
[0:36:51 – 0:37:04] Adam: I have no way to say whether or not that’s true, but just based on the way he describes, like, how he stole these chicks from this tree, that, yeah, they aren’t, like, you know, they weren’t, like, super in grief over him stealing the chicks.
[0:37:04 – 0:37:05] Adam: But they did notice.
[0:37:05 – 0:37:10] Adam: I think they were just confused, yeah, was the way he described it was, like, they were very confused.
[0:37:10 – 0:37:11] Adam: Hmm.
[0:37:11 – 0:37:31] Adam: kind of flew around a bit and then i went home and ate a cheeseburger and i fed them chopped frog and they loved me they immediately like just thought that he was their parent yeah because if you get them when they’re really young obviously you know they don’t know what’s going on yeah so he bamboozled them basically and fed them chopped frog say hon
[0:37:32 – 0:37:32] Adam: Here’s where he got them.
[0:37:32 – 0:37:33] Adam: Here, I got to read this.
[0:37:33 – 0:37:36] Erik: Didn’t we have children when we left?
[0:37:36 – 0:37:37] Adam: I don’t know.
[0:37:37 – 0:37:43] Adam: There’s more on this later because he does other experiments with how do they know what’s going on up there.
[0:37:43 – 0:37:47] Adam: He was basically always trying to test these birds for their intelligence.
[0:37:48 – 0:37:53] Adam: The fact that they could just be like, oh, somebody stole our chicks and I guess I’ll fly off now.
[0:37:54 – 0:37:56] Adam: You know, does that mean they’re intelligent or not?
[0:37:56 – 0:38:02] Adam: I mean, these are big questions that the book does try to get at later, but it does kind of make you question it.
[0:38:02 – 0:38:04] Adam: Like, well, this bird is so smart.
[0:38:04 – 0:38:06] Adam: When are you like trying to chase down the chicks?
[0:38:06 – 0:38:07] Erik: No, I don’t know.
[0:38:08 – 0:38:12] Adam: I mean, I guess the guy who is climbing the tree before he gets to the nest, they just kind of sat there.
[0:38:12 – 0:38:13] Adam: How smart can they be?
[0:38:13 – 0:38:16] Adam: But is that a real test of intelligence?
[0:38:16 – 0:38:24] Erik: Is this the are these the writings of somebody who has been like scientifically peer reviewed or just a wild man who abducted?
[0:38:25 – 0:38:25] Adam: No, no.
[0:38:25 – 0:38:27] Adam: This guy’s like a bird expert for sure.
[0:38:27 – 0:38:30] Adam: I mean, he has been published in scientific journals.
[0:38:30 – 0:38:37] Adam: He talks a lot about how like they’re like, oh, they wouldn’t publish me until I like did test A, B, C and D as well.
[0:38:38 – 0:38:39] Adam: Like they, you know.
[0:38:39 – 0:38:45] Adam: He talks about the process of getting published in scientific journals and how rigorous you actually have to be to do that.
[0:38:46 – 0:38:46] Erik: Well, that’s good to hear.
[0:38:46 – 0:38:55] Adam: He’s not some sort of maniac with a bunch of aviaries out in Vermont, but you’ve got to be kind of a maniac to climb a tree and steal raven chicks, no?
[0:38:56 – 0:38:57] Erik: Oh, yeah, for sure.
[0:38:57 – 0:38:57] Adam: Yeah.
[0:38:59 – 0:39:10] Adam: On the first day, I fed the four birds six mice, four hen’s eggs, two six-ounce cans of cat food, ten ounces of puppy chow, and a couple of mouthfuls of beans I had pre-chewed for them.
[0:39:10 – 0:39:12] Erik: Mouthfuls of beans.
[0:39:12 – 0:39:13] Erik: Pre-chewed beans.
[0:39:14 – 0:39:17] Erik: Is that the subtitle to this episode?
[0:39:17 – 0:39:18] Adam: Pre-chewed beans?
[0:39:18 – 0:39:18] Adam: I hope not.
[0:39:18 – 0:39:21] Erik: Or mouthful of beans.
[0:39:22 – 0:39:26] Erik: Yeah, I mean, I bet you there’s probably some parents out there who would be relieved to come home to an empty nest.
[0:39:28 – 0:39:28] Erik: That was dark.
[0:39:28 – 0:39:28] Erik: I’m sorry.
[0:39:29 – 0:39:29] Adam: I’m going to take a sip.
[0:39:30 – 0:39:35] Adam: No comment.
[0:39:36 – 0:39:37] Adam: Yeah, this is a really nice beer.
[0:39:38 – 0:39:39] Erik: It is pretty good.
[0:39:40 – 0:39:40] Erik: I can’t tell.
[0:39:40 – 0:39:45] Erik: Again, I think we were maybe up against it when it comes to how old this is.
[0:39:45 – 0:39:48] Erik: It tastes a tad aged.
[0:39:49 – 0:39:50] Adam: Aged to perfection, I would say.
[0:39:54 – 0:39:56] Adam: He doesn’t know anything about wine.
[0:39:56 – 0:39:56] Adam: Give that to me.
[0:39:56 – 0:39:58] Erik: He doesn’t know anything about junkyard brewing.
[0:40:00 – 0:40:05] Adam: I got a little passage in here about him trying to observe the bird.
[0:40:07 – 0:40:09] Erik: The pups or the adults?
[0:40:09 – 0:40:10] Adam: All bird.
[0:40:10 – 0:40:11] Adam: Just all bird?
[0:40:11 – 0:40:15] Adam: This is a general observation on observing the bird and trying to learn from them.
[0:40:15 – 0:40:16] Adam: Okay.
[0:40:16 – 0:40:23] Adam: You know, he tried to like build ground blinds and whatnot to like see them in the wild, which is important as well.
[0:40:23 – 0:40:25] Adam: And he did that a lot, but.
[0:40:25 – 0:40:30] Erik: Before you get into that, he didn’t pull an Ellen Page and get a big hang glider that looked like a raven, did he?
[0:40:31 – 0:40:34] Adam: No, I don’t think that was Ellen Page.
[0:40:34 – 0:40:35] Adam: Anna Paquin.
[0:40:35 – 0:40:38] Adam: It was Anna Paquin.
[0:40:38 – 0:40:39] Adam: Put that on the board, by the way.
[0:40:39 – 0:40:41] Adam: Fly Away Home, add it to the board.
[0:40:41 – 0:40:44] Erik: I think that is literally one of the first movies that we thought about doing.
[0:40:44 – 0:40:47] Adam: Yeah, we need to add that to the board, honest to God.
[0:40:47 – 0:40:48] Adam: I’m going to go add it right now.
[0:40:49 – 0:40:52] Adam: I will read the passage while you add that to the whiteboard.
[0:40:52 – 0:40:54] Adam: Fly Away Home deserves to be on here.
[0:40:56 – 0:40:58] Adam: I like being invisible among them.
[0:40:58 – 0:41:01] Adam: What’s more, I possessed an almost supernatural power.
[0:41:01 – 0:41:08] Adam: I could identify some as individuals, and with the radios on, I could find out where they slept and thus find their roost without actually seeing them at all.
[0:41:09 – 0:41:14] Adam: Unfortunately, ravens do not form one tight group that can be followed within a certain area.
[0:41:15 – 0:41:17] Adam: This is like what wolves would do, Eric.
[0:41:18 – 0:41:19] Adam: Continuing.
[0:41:19 – 0:41:23] Adam: The population wanders over many thousands of square miles.
[0:41:24 – 0:41:26] Adam: After a bird is marked, it will not stay.
[0:41:26 – 0:41:30] Adam: Once a bird finishes feeding at a bonanza… A bonanza?
[0:41:30 – 0:41:31] Adam: Hold on.
[0:41:31 – 0:41:32] Adam: Page break.
[0:41:33 – 0:41:36] Adam: It may be in another state the next day.
[0:41:37 – 0:41:41] Adam: I might complain about this habit of ravens, but to some extent, it is why I study them.
[0:41:42 – 0:41:44] Adam: What is easy is exhausted quickly.
[0:41:45 – 0:41:45] Erik: Hmm.
[0:41:46 – 0:41:46] Erik: Sure.
[0:41:47 – 0:42:06] Adam: So in this introduces the like he does try and like radio band them and like tag their wings because they all look basically it’s hard to I guess the best way to say it is like people who even study Ravens and know them can’t tell if it’s a male or female or like an individual from an individual.
[0:42:06 – 0:42:16] Adam: They don’t have a ton of distinctive markings, but once he started to raise his ravens from chicks, he could kind of tell them apart just by their sizes.
[0:42:17 – 0:42:21] Adam: Some of them get to be quite big, and some say small, very small.
[0:42:22 – 0:42:30] Adam: But anyways, then he did try at one point to radio tag them with frequency bands or whatever so he could kind of go out and see.
[0:42:30 – 0:42:34] Adam: But like he said in the last passage, they will fly like a state away.
[0:42:34 – 0:42:35] Adam: I like that.
[0:42:35 – 0:42:36] Adam: I like that.
[0:42:36 – 0:42:37] Adam: Why did I say it like that?
[0:42:38 – 0:42:39] Adam: A raven is expressive.
[0:42:39 – 0:42:45] Adam: It communicates emotions, intentions, and expectations and acts as though it understands you.
[0:42:46 – 0:42:48] Adam: This communication is privileged.
[0:42:48 – 0:42:54] Adam: It occurs when the individual close to the bird is trusted, has earned a trust that is not often given lightly.
[0:42:54 – 0:42:58] Adam: Given that trust, though, much is revealed that could otherwise never be seen.
[0:42:59 – 0:43:06] Adam: For one month after they left the nest, I led the four birds at least once and sometimes several times a day on 30-minute walks.
[0:43:07 – 0:43:10] Adam: During these walks, I wrote down everything in their environment they pecked at.
[0:43:11 – 0:43:13] Adam: In the first sessions, I tried to be a teacher.
[0:43:13 – 0:43:16] Adam: I touched specific objects, sticks, moss, rocks.
[0:43:17 – 0:43:20] Adam: Nothing that I touched remained untouched by them.
[0:43:20 – 0:43:28] Adam: They came to investigate what I had investigated, leading me to assume that young birds are aided in learning to identify food from the parents’ example.
[0:43:29 – 0:43:34] Adam: They also, however, contacted almost everything else that lay directly in their own paths.
[0:43:35 – 0:43:38] Adam: They soon became more independent by taking their own routes near mine.
[0:43:38 – 0:43:49] Adam: Even while walking along on their own, they pulled at leaves, grass stems, flowers, bark, pine needles, seeds, cones, clods of earth, and other objects they encountered.
[0:43:49 – 0:43:53] Adam: Ravens’ curiosity does decline with age.
[0:43:53 – 0:43:58] Adam: By the time they are four months old, they are already becoming shy of most novel stimuli.
[0:43:58 – 0:44:02] Adam: As they mature, the initial attraction to novel things reverses.
[0:44:02 – 0:44:05] Adam: They become increasingly fearful of novel objects.
[0:44:07 – 0:44:14] Adam: I mean, most of this book is him describing raising these young birds, and it’s a lot of this kind of stuff.
[0:44:15 – 0:44:18] Adam: I like that passage a lot of him leading them on walks.
[0:44:18 – 0:44:24] Adam: You think of a raven as a bird of the sky, but when they’re young and even in adulthood, they do spend a lot of time on the ground.
[0:44:24 – 0:44:26] Erik: Yeah, they’re really good at hopping.
[0:44:26 – 0:44:29] Adam: Yeah, they can hop and walk and run as well.
[0:44:30 – 0:44:32] Adam: Wouldn’t it be amazing to be able to fly, though, Eric?
[0:44:32 – 0:44:32] Adam: Wow.
[0:44:34 – 0:44:37] Erik: Here’s a question that was posed to me recently.
[0:44:37 – 0:44:44] Erik: Would you rather have the ability to fly or be invisible, one or the other?
[0:44:45 – 0:44:46] Adam: I’d fly, yeah.
[0:44:46 – 0:44:47] Adam: You think so?
[0:44:47 – 0:44:47] Adam: Yeah.
[0:44:48 – 0:44:49] Adam: Being invisible is creepy.
[0:44:50 – 0:44:54] Adam: Not that flying, like you’re a, I mean, I assume other people would have the choice, though.
[0:44:55 – 0:44:57] Adam: Half the people would be invisible, the other would be flying.
[0:44:59 – 0:45:02] Erik: Yeah, I guess my answer was immediately invisible, just because.
[0:45:03 – 0:45:04] Adam: This is why this is a good podcast.
[0:45:05 – 0:45:06] Adam: You’re the invisible.
[0:45:06 – 0:45:08] Adam: I’m a little bit invisible.
[0:45:08 – 0:45:10] Adam: I’m flying up in the air.
[0:45:16 – 0:45:24] Erik: My biggest, not gripe, but my biggest question with that question is like, how fast are you flying?
[0:45:26 – 0:45:27] Erik: Just like the speed of a bird?
[0:45:28 – 0:45:29] Adam: Yeah, I would just want bird speed.
[0:45:29 – 0:45:30] Adam: Bird speed?
[0:45:30 – 0:45:32] Erik: I don’t need to be going Mach 2.
[0:45:32 – 0:45:32] Erik: Okay.
[0:45:33 – 0:45:36] Erik: So it wouldn’t be the ability to get places faster?
[0:45:36 – 0:45:40] Erik: Like maybe slightly faster, but it’s not like you could be like, I’m heading to…
[0:45:40 – 0:45:41] Adam: I guess I hadn’t considered that.
[0:45:41 – 0:45:43] Adam: Yeah, I was thinking like Raven flight.
[0:45:43 – 0:45:44] Adam: Yeah.
[0:45:44 – 0:45:45] Adam: If I could go as fast as Raven…
[0:45:47 – 0:45:48] Erik: That’s a pretty nice commute.
[0:45:48 – 0:45:50] Erik: Yeah.
[0:45:50 – 0:45:53] Erik: I don’t know.
[0:45:53 – 0:46:02] Erik: I feel like saying that I would prefer the invisibility aspect of it does come across as creepy, but I wouldn’t use it for creepiness.
[0:46:02 – 0:46:02] Adam: Yeah.
[0:46:03 – 0:46:06] Adam: I mean, well, I mean, there you have it.
[0:46:06 – 0:46:07] Adam: We have your word.
[0:46:07 – 0:46:09] Erik: I would just use it to not be seen.
[0:46:09 – 0:46:11] Adam: I wouldn’t use the flying for creepiness either.
[0:46:11 – 0:46:12] Adam: I would just use it for fun.
[0:46:14 – 0:46:16] Erik: Why would you have to say it like that?
[0:46:16 – 0:46:20] Erik: How could you use flight as a creepiness?
[0:46:20 – 0:46:23] Erik: I guess maybe if you were in California flying over pools and stuff.
[0:46:26 – 0:46:27] Adam: You never know.
[0:46:27 – 0:46:31] Adam: I mean, you could, yeah, flight’s its own kind of invisibility.
[0:46:31 – 0:46:35] Adam: They don’t ever expect you to be up above them.
[0:46:35 – 0:46:36] Adam: Why do you have to say it like that?
[0:46:37 – 0:46:39] Erik: Ravens are a little creepier, right?
[0:46:39 – 0:46:45] Erik: Invisibility does trump flight for me, but I feel like teleportation trumps invisibility.
[0:46:46 – 0:46:49] Adam: Yeah, and as we talked about last week, time travel.
[0:46:50 – 0:46:55] Adam: It’s its own kind of invisibility and teleportation.
[0:46:55 – 0:46:58] Erik: Yeah, that’s a three-dimensional invisibility.
[0:46:58 – 0:46:59] Adam: Nailed it.
[0:46:59 – 0:47:00] Adam: Time.
[0:47:01 – 0:47:02] Adam: It’s an artificial construct.
[0:47:05 – 0:47:08] Adam: I got a little bit in here about raven mating.
[0:47:09 – 0:47:10] Adam: Do we have time for this?
[0:47:10 – 0:47:12] Adam: After dark.
[0:47:12 – 0:47:13] Erik: It is after dark.
[0:47:13 – 0:47:14] Erik: It’s after dark.
[0:47:14 – 0:47:15] Erik: Better get into it.
[0:47:15 – 0:47:16] Erik: All right.
[0:47:16 – 0:47:19] Erik: Put your young ones to bed.
[0:47:21 – 0:47:22] Adam: We’re not talking.
[0:47:22 – 0:47:23] Adam: That’s not what they’re called.
[0:47:24 – 0:47:24] Adam: No.
[0:47:24 – 0:47:29] Adam: Young Ravens do stay with their parents until they can feed themselves, basically.
[0:47:29 – 0:47:30] Adam: But then they’re off.
[0:47:32 – 0:47:57] Adam: once they can figure out how to feed themselves they’re off to make their own life but this is the most dangerous time this is the same story for any animal i would say yes it’s the dispersal from home uh how are they going to handle that you know can they make it but for ravens it does happen pretty early what was it please don’t please don’t make that noise arrow the lagomorphs the uh
[0:47:59 – 0:47:59] Adam: It’s like day two.
[0:48:00 – 0:48:00] Erik: What were the owls?
[0:48:01 – 0:48:01] Erik: Get out!
[0:48:01 – 0:48:04] Erik: What were the owls?
[0:48:04 – 0:48:05] Adam: The owls?
[0:48:05 – 0:48:07] Adam: Yeah, we did the owl episode.
[0:48:07 – 0:48:08] Adam: Arrow.
[0:48:08 – 0:48:10] Erik: Is she turning into a corvus?
[0:48:10 – 0:48:11] Erik: What are you doing?
[0:48:11 – 0:48:12] Erik: Corvus Corvid?
[0:48:13 – 0:48:16] Erik: I’m totally blanking on the owl’s scientific name.
[0:48:16 – 0:48:18] Adam: We’re going to have to Google it on the fly.
[0:48:18 – 0:48:20] Erik: Scroll back to 140.
[0:48:20 – 0:48:21] Adam: I’m going to read this passage.
[0:48:21 – 0:48:24] Adam: You’ve got to look up what the owls are called while I’m doing this, okay?
[0:48:25 – 0:48:25] Adam: All right.
[0:48:25 – 0:48:26] Adam: Please.
[0:48:26 – 0:48:27] Adam: We have to know.
[0:48:29 – 0:48:38] Adam: After finding a mate, ravens apparently do try to settle down, but whether they are successful in becoming a permanent resident and consistently raising young is another matter.
[0:48:38 – 0:48:39] Adam: We talked about this earlier.
[0:48:40 – 0:48:42] Adam: Most ravens don’t end up actually mating.
[0:48:43 – 0:48:45] Erik: Yeah, that’s wild to me, actually.
[0:48:46 – 0:48:52] Adam: It may take a long time to get established, and even once a site is chosen, the birds do not necessarily stay there all the time.
[0:48:52 – 0:48:55] Adam: Vagrant and resident are not absolutes.
[0:48:57 – 0:49:01] Adam: Ravens do not usually breed until their third year or later.
[0:49:01 – 0:49:08] Adam: Yet already in their first fall, Goliath and many other ravens I have kept began to form strong partnerships.
[0:49:09 – 0:49:19] Adam: In the field, such partnerships would be difficult to detect, although in crowds of juveniles performing aerial dances, pairs do predominate.
[0:49:19 – 0:49:26] Adam: The problem is that we have no way of knowing if these pairs last for a moment, an hour, a day, or a lifetime.
[0:49:27 – 0:49:33] Adam: Ravens, like humans, are exceptional animals that may pair up as friends years before breeding.
[0:49:34 – 0:49:40] Adam: My observations with aviary birds shows that some of the friendships last and others don’t.
[0:49:41 – 0:49:48] Adam: In the wild, adult ravens probably stay paired up the entire year, not just when rearing young.
[0:49:51 – 0:49:59] Adam: Raven pairs fly around together in the daytime, sleep close to each other at night, regularly communicate with each other and mutually preen each other.
[0:50:00 – 0:50:01] Erik: Mutual preening.
[0:50:02 – 0:50:09] Adam: I examined the power of pairs in detail in thousands of interactions with my group of six birds when all were about two years old.
[0:50:10 – 0:50:11] Adam: In this group, all right, hold on.
[0:50:11 – 0:50:15] Adam: Before I get to this part, he had another set that were all named for colors.
[0:50:16 – 0:50:20] Adam: So he had multiple, like, he had kidnapped multiple nestfuls of ravens.
[0:50:21 – 0:50:22] Adam: We’re just going to get this out of the way.
[0:50:22 – 0:50:29] Adam: Anybody who’s reading this book, if you don’t want to hear about a guy kidnapping a bunch of raven birds, you could probably just stop this episode at this point because this is all it says.
[0:50:29 – 0:50:30] Adam: He just keeps kidnapping.
[0:50:31 – 0:50:32] Adam: He can’t stop kidnapping the birds.
[0:50:33 – 0:50:35] Erik: Lagomorphs and Strigiforms.
[0:50:35 – 0:50:36] Adam: Strigiforms.
[0:50:36 – 0:50:37] Adam: That’s it.
[0:50:37 – 0:50:37] Adam: Strigi?
[0:50:38 – 0:50:39] Adam: Strigs.
[0:50:40 – 0:50:40] Adam: Are you okay?
[0:50:43 – 0:50:45] Adam: Anyways, so he had a second group of birds.
[0:50:45 – 0:50:45] Adam: Okay.
[0:50:45 – 0:50:47] Adam: And then he had another set, too.
[0:50:47 – 0:50:53] Adam: So, you know, forgive me if I didn’t, like, introduce all the different birds he kidnapped, but he’s got a lot of different names for them.
[0:50:54 – 0:50:58] Adam: And anyways, this is a different set of birds that he’s talking about.
[0:50:58 – 0:51:03] Adam: In this passage, I don’t want to confuse people because, you know, Houdini isn’t in this one or whatever.
[0:51:03 – 0:51:03] Erik: Yeah.
[0:51:03 – 0:51:06] Erik: I mean, just assume that Berndt is a nest robber.
[0:51:07 – 0:51:08] Erik: Well, he is.
[0:51:08 – 0:51:08] Adam: I mean, he is.
[0:51:09 – 0:51:10] Erik: It’s in the name of science.
[0:51:11 – 0:51:18] Adam: I examined the power of pairs in detail and thousands of interactions with my group of birds when all were about two years old.
[0:51:18 – 0:51:23] Adam: In this group, Blue was a male and the undisputed dominant of the group.
[0:51:23 – 0:51:29] Adam: The birds probably wouldn’t nest for a year, but Blue had already paired with a female, Red, a year earlier.
[0:51:30 – 0:51:45] Adam: All six birds normally got along amicably, but if they were hungry and I gave them a choice hunk of food like a calf haunch or a woodchuck carcass, Blue immediately perched on top of it and began to feed, excluding all other except for his partner.
[0:51:46 – 0:51:51] Adam: A year earlier, he still had excluded her mildly, but only for a short while.
[0:51:51 – 0:51:56] Adam: Now he immediately let her feed beside him, even at the choicest of meat.
[0:51:57 – 0:52:00] Adam: When the time began to nest, what one would catch, both would eat.
[0:52:01 – 0:52:07] Adam: And together they would both become even better providers for the young and for each other than if they were alone.
[0:52:09 – 0:52:10] Adam: That’s quite nice.
[0:52:11 – 0:52:11] Adam: It is quite nice.
[0:52:13 – 0:52:15] Adam: So, yeah, these are choice passages.
[0:52:15 – 0:52:16] Adam: Choice.
[0:52:16 – 0:52:18] Adam: These are burnt choice meats.
[0:52:18 – 0:52:19] Erik: Choice passages.
[0:52:19 – 0:52:20] Erik: Choice meats.
[0:52:22 – 0:52:22] Adam: Choiced.
[0:52:23 – 0:52:25] Adam: The choicest.
[0:52:25 – 0:52:27] Adam: I think we might make it.
[0:52:27 – 0:52:29] Adam: Where are we sitting at right now?
[0:52:29 – 0:52:31] Adam: 52 and a half.
[0:52:31 – 0:52:32] Adam: I think we can get her.
[0:52:32 – 0:52:33] Erik: I think we can get her in one.
[0:52:34 – 0:52:36] Erik: I don’t know if this bladder can get it done in one.
[0:52:36 – 0:52:41] Adam: We might want to take a break right now, but we’re talking about we got one more passage on food.
[0:52:41 – 0:52:41] Adam: Okay.
[0:52:42 – 0:52:43] Adam: Then we’ll take a break.
[0:52:44 – 0:52:51] Adam: We’ll come back for part two after the break, of course, and our message from our sponsors.
[0:52:51 – 0:52:52] Adam: Oh, no.
[0:52:53 – 0:52:54] Erik: Now we have to come up with a sponsor.
[0:52:55 – 0:52:56] Adam: Now we have one.
[0:52:56 – 0:52:56] Adam: We do.
[0:52:56 – 0:52:57] Erik: Oh, thank God.
[0:52:58 – 0:53:00] Adam: Ravens, stop doing that thing with your hand.
[0:53:00 – 0:53:02] Adam: What is with the finger?
[0:53:02 – 0:53:04] Adam: This is like that red rum situation.
[0:53:04 – 0:53:05] Adam: You ever seen The Shining, Eric?
[0:53:06 – 0:53:06] Erik: I have seen The Shining.
[0:53:07 – 0:53:07] Erik: Yes.
[0:53:07 – 0:53:08] Adam: Put it on the list.
[0:53:08 – 0:53:10] Erik: All right, I’m going to go put it up on the list.
[0:53:12 – 0:53:14] Adam: That would be a good one for January, The Shining.
[0:53:14 – 0:53:15] Adam: There’s probably ravens in there.
[0:53:15 – 0:53:16] Adam: Because it’s cold?
[0:53:16 – 0:53:21] Adam: I would bet $5 right now that there’s a raven in The Shining at some point.
[0:53:22 – 0:53:22] Erik: At some point.
[0:53:22 – 0:53:23] Erik: Probably a stuffed raven.
[0:53:23 – 0:53:24] Erik: In the background.
[0:53:24 – 0:53:26] Adam: Or yeah, a stuffed raven on the mantle.
[0:53:27 – 0:53:28] Erik: You want to take that bet?
[0:53:28 – 0:53:29] Erik: No, I don’t know.
[0:53:29 – 0:53:31] Erik: No, I would.
[0:53:31 – 0:53:34] Erik: We’d have to have a third party because I would agree.
[0:53:34 – 0:53:37] Erik: I’m sure there’s like a stuffed raven in the four year.
[0:53:38 – 0:53:38] Erik: Four year.
[0:53:39 – 0:53:39] Adam: Here we go.
[0:53:39 – 0:53:45] Adam: I already talked about this a bit, but they will eat anything except for other corvids.
[0:53:46 – 0:53:46] Adam: They won’t do it.
[0:53:47 – 0:53:47] Adam: Never?
[0:53:48 – 0:53:49] Adam: Absolutely never.
[0:53:49 – 0:53:53] Adam: Bernt tried to give them corvids and like crows even, and they’re just like, mm-mm.
[0:53:54 – 0:53:55] Adam: Mm-mm.
[0:53:55 – 0:53:59] Adam: They will even eat skunk, though, and they do not appear to smell them.
[0:53:59 – 0:54:01] Adam: They are visual feeders.
[0:54:01 – 0:54:03] Adam: They often cache food for future meals.
[0:54:04 – 0:54:12] Adam: Contrary to what I had presumed from earlier tests, the Ravens did not provide one shred of evidence that they used scent to locate the food.
[0:54:13 – 0:54:15] Adam: They cannot smell, basically.
[0:54:15 – 0:54:16] Erik: Wow, crazy.
[0:54:16 – 0:54:18] Erik: So he didn’t simulate a Donner situation?
[0:54:18 – 0:54:26] Adam: He did all sorts of things with these skunks and, like, other very smelly things that they would eat, and they could not smell them.
[0:54:26 – 0:54:26] Adam: Hmm.
[0:54:28 – 0:54:31] Adam: Maybe if they could, they just didn’t respond to it.
[0:54:31 – 0:54:39] Erik: I was going to say, I wouldn’t necessarily… Hey, I’m no bird thief and or scientist, but I wouldn’t necessarily use… You’re no nest robber.
[0:54:40 – 0:54:49] Erik: I’m no nest robber, but I don’t know if I would use the stinkiness as a good test as to whether or not they can smell or not.
[0:54:49 – 0:54:53] Erik: I would use to see, did you ever test them trying to be able to find something?
[0:54:53 – 0:54:55] Adam: Yeah, he would bury him.
[0:54:55 – 0:54:57] Erik: And they would just never find him?
[0:54:57 – 0:55:08] Adam: They would eat skunk, but then he would hide them, and then he would bury skunk in their aviary and let them out, and they wouldn’t find it.
[0:55:08 – 0:55:10] Adam: But he already knew they liked to eat skunk.
[0:55:11 – 0:55:11] Adam: Sure.
[0:55:11 – 0:55:12] Adam: Example number one.
[0:55:12 – 0:55:13] Adam: Good example.
[0:55:13 – 0:55:14] Adam: He did a lot of them, though.
[0:55:14 – 0:55:20] Adam: And then he’d be like, and the Scientific Journal of Birds refused to publish my findings, and so I did 100 more tests.
[0:55:22 – 0:55:23] Adam: And then they eventually did.
[0:55:24 – 0:55:28] Adam: So this guy was, like I said, very thorough in his hiding of skunks and whatnot.
[0:55:28 – 0:55:32] Erik: Yeah, if you could say anything, he was very thorough in his hiding of skunks.
[0:55:36 – 0:55:43] Adam: Contrary to what I had presumed from earlier tests, the ravens did not provide one shred of evidence they had used sent to locate the food.
[0:55:43 – 0:55:46] Adam: Ravens are very alert to subtle visual cues, though.
[0:55:47 – 0:55:55] Adam: Reacting to subtle cues is admittedly not intelligence, but it is a prerequisite for many kinds of intelligent behavior.
[0:55:55 – 0:56:04] Adam: I suspected evermore that what they do has less to do with what they perceive than with how they process information in their minds.
[0:56:05 – 0:56:05] Erik: Hmm.
[0:56:06 – 0:56:06] Adam: All right.
[0:56:06 – 0:56:07] Erik: Okay.
[0:56:07 – 0:56:17] Adam: And with that, we will take a break and enjoy this message from our sponsors who also perceive things with their minds.
[0:56:18 – 0:56:21] Erik: As opposed to… With their gut.
[0:56:23 – 0:56:25] Adam: Now it has to be like a Hardee’s commercial or something.
[0:56:25 – 0:56:27] Erik: Yeah, probably something involving food.
[0:56:30 – 0:56:37] Adam: Betty’s Pies is a proud sponsor of Tumble Home Boundary Waters Podcast.
[0:56:38 – 0:56:43] Adam: Come by this month for October’s spooktacular pie of the day.
[0:56:43 – 0:56:44] Adam: It’s the pie du jour.
[0:56:45 – 0:56:49] Adam: It’s Betty’s famous eyeball pies.
[0:56:49 – 0:56:52] Adam: Favorite of all bird customer.
[0:56:53 – 0:56:54] Adam: Try our eyeball pies.
[0:56:54 – 0:56:56] Adam: They’re very good.
[0:56:57 – 0:56:58] Adam: Now back to the show.
[0:57:00 – 0:57:02] Adam: Oh, yeah, it’s great to hear about those eyeball pies.
[0:57:03 – 0:57:04] Adam: I’ve had them.
[0:57:04 – 0:57:04] Adam: They’re delicious.
[0:57:05 – 0:57:06] Adam: Definitely worth a stop.
[0:57:06 – 0:57:10] Adam: Definitely worth stopping up traffic all the way back to the tunnel to stop for that eyeball pie.
[0:57:11 – 0:57:12] Erik: Definitely worth a pack or two.
[0:57:13 – 0:57:14] Erik: Pack or two?
[0:57:14 – 0:57:22] Adam: Only thing I’ve had this week better than eyeball pie is this Junkyard Brewing beautiful catfish beer.
[0:57:23 – 0:57:23] Adam: Bad Larry.
[0:57:24 – 0:57:25] Adam: You’re a bad man, Larry.
[0:57:27 – 0:57:29] Adam: That’s a bad, bad catfish on the can.
[0:57:30 – 0:57:32] Adam: Thank you, Stephanie, for these jumbo beers.
[0:57:32 – 0:57:34] Adam: I’ve still got a lot of beer left.
[0:57:35 – 0:57:36] Adam: Bad.
[0:57:38 – 0:57:39] Adam: Bad Larry.
[0:57:39 – 0:57:41] Adam: Oh, Bad Larry.
[0:57:41 – 0:57:43] Adam: Contrary to what I had presumed.
[0:57:43 – 0:57:43] Adam: Oh, wait.
[0:57:43 – 0:57:44] Adam: We already did that part.
[0:57:45 – 0:57:48] Adam: Anyhow, we’re into part two now of the Ravens.
[0:57:48 – 0:57:51] Adam: We’re going to get this one in, though, because there’s not much to go through here.
[0:57:52 – 0:57:53] Adam: But here’s a preview.
[0:57:53 – 0:57:58] Adam: We’re going to talk about the relationship of the Ravens and the Wolves in Yellowstone, Eric.
[0:57:59 – 0:58:04] Adam: Your favorite national park, as we’re about to find out on your side podcast, American Campground.
[0:58:05 – 0:58:05] Adam: Side podcast.
[0:58:05 – 0:58:07] Adam: Which you have to share the artwork for.
[0:58:08 – 0:58:08] Adam: Please do.
[0:58:09 – 0:58:21] Erik: I wanted to try to get it to replace the Tumble Home Boundary Warriors podcast artwork, but the RSS feeds, they’re just too strong, and they only want to see the aerial photo of Poplar Lake.
[0:58:22 – 0:58:24] Erik: It’s a very powerful photo.
[0:58:24 – 0:58:26] Erik: You can’t just bump that off in one post.
[0:58:27 – 0:58:28] Erik: But, yeah, I’ll throw it up.
[0:58:29 – 0:58:36] Adam: We’ve got to talk about communications and myth and also, eventually, the mind of the Raven in the third act.
[0:58:37 – 0:58:37] Erik: Okay.
[0:58:37 – 0:58:37] Erik: Yeah.
[0:58:39 – 0:58:47] Adam: If the birds recognized each other, as my observations suggested, the next question was, what is the basis for that recognition?
[0:58:48 – 0:58:54] Adam: We use faces, voice, gesture, gait, and close.
[0:58:54 – 0:59:08] Adam: We can distinguish one individual from any other, even though our facial expressions can vary tremendously, and even though those expressions communicate a great range of other information besides identity.
[0:59:10 – 0:59:12] Adam: Ravens also vary their facial expressions enormously.
[0:59:13 – 0:59:23] Adam: Their skin is hidden by feathers, but the head feathers can be rearranged by the muscles in the skin to convey a wide range of mood, emotion, and intents.
[0:59:24 – 0:59:25] Adam: Body language does the same.
[0:59:26 – 0:59:35] Adam: I can see at a glance if a raven feels afraid, self-assertive, attentive, angry, or contented, Eric.
[0:59:36 – 0:59:38] Adam: Think about that if you had head feathers.
[0:59:39 – 0:59:40] Adam: Think of it.
[0:59:40 – 0:59:41] Adam: We can move our eyebrows.
[0:59:41 – 0:59:43] Adam: I think of exactly that.
[0:59:43 – 0:59:47] Adam: You can even move your mustache a little or your eyebrows.
[0:59:47 – 0:59:50] Adam: It’s hard for me to move my hair on the head, though.
[0:59:51 – 0:59:52] Erik: Do a little I Dream of Jeannie.
[0:59:52 – 0:59:53] Erik: A little, a little, a little.
[0:59:55 – 0:59:57] Adam: And by the way, your hair’s looking great today, Eric.
[0:59:57 – 0:59:57] Adam: Well, thank you.
[0:59:58 – 1:00:00] Adam: Your voice also sounds really nice.
[1:00:01 – 1:00:02] Adam: Thank you again.
[1:00:03 – 1:00:03] Adam: There you go.
[1:00:03 – 1:00:06] Adam: Common vocalizations of ravens.
[1:00:06 – 1:00:07] Adam: Here, I just have a list.
[1:00:07 – 1:00:07] Adam: Okay.
[1:00:08 – 1:00:11] Adam: These are the top 10 raven vocalizations.
[1:00:11 – 1:00:12] Adam: Are you ready for this?
[1:00:12 – 1:00:14] Adam: Count them down from 10.
[1:00:15 – 1:00:20] Adam: Loud, hollow-sounded carcs given singly or widely spaced in time.
[1:00:21 – 1:00:22] Adam: Cork!
[1:00:22 – 1:00:23] Adam: Cork!
[1:00:24 – 1:00:29] Adam: I am, and for the record, I am absolutely going to try and reproduce all of these.
[1:00:29 – 1:00:30] Adam: I have a lot of ravens living around the house.
[1:00:31 – 1:00:34] Adam: There’s multiple ravens right outside this shed right now.
[1:00:34 – 1:00:35] Erik: Yeah, somebody should isolate that sound.
[1:00:35 – 1:00:36] Erik: Cork!
[1:00:36 – 1:00:37] UNKNOWN: Cork!
[1:00:37 – 1:00:39] Adam: Yeah, this isn’t going to get turned into a chiptune.
[1:00:44 – 1:00:44] Adam: Number nine.
[1:00:45 – 1:00:46] Adam: Number nine.
[1:00:46 – 1:00:49] Adam: Soft sounds, intimate calls.
[1:00:53 – 1:00:54] Adam: That’s pretty good.
[1:00:54 – 1:00:54] Adam: Yeah?
[1:00:54 – 1:00:55] Adam: That’s pretty good.
[1:00:56 – 1:00:57] Adam: Low honks.
[1:00:57 – 1:00:59] Adam: You got to go ahead and take the low honks.
[1:00:59 – 1:00:59] Adam: Is this eight?
[1:00:59 – 1:01:00] Adam: Yeah, eight.
[1:01:00 – 1:01:01] Adam: Low honks.
[1:01:01 – 1:01:03] Adam: Huh?
[1:01:03 – 1:01:03] Adam: Huh?
[1:01:03 – 1:01:04] Adam: That’s pretty good.
[1:01:04 – 1:01:04] Adam: Huh?
[1:01:04 – 1:01:05] Adam: Yeah, that’s pretty good.
[1:01:06 – 1:01:06] Adam: Number seven.
[1:01:07 – 1:01:09] Adam: Rapidly repeating rap, rap, rap calls.
[1:01:10 – 1:01:15] Erik: I thought you were going to drop some bars.
[1:01:15 – 1:01:17] Erik: Some Lil Nas X?
[1:01:20 – 1:01:24] Adam: Number six, knocking calls like a stick in a bicycle.
[1:01:27 – 1:01:27] Adam: Nailed it.
[1:01:27 – 1:01:28] Adam: Nailed it.
[1:01:29 – 1:01:32] Adam: Number five, ooh-ooh sounding calls.
[1:01:33 – 1:01:35] Adam: Ooh-ooh.
[1:01:36 – 1:01:38] Adam: Arrow is so confused right now.
[1:01:38 – 1:01:40] Adam: She’s bamboozled over here in the hay.
[1:01:40 – 1:01:40] Adam: Yeah.
[1:01:41 – 1:01:41] Adam: Poor Arrow.
[1:01:41 – 1:01:45] Erik: Hopefully there’s, I mean, I’m sure there are other dogs out there listening right now.
[1:01:45 – 1:01:46] Adam: We’re driving the dogs nuts.
[1:01:46 – 1:01:47] Adam: Easy, buddy.
[1:01:47 – 1:01:47] Adam: You can hear them going.
[1:01:48 – 1:01:48] Erik: It’s okay.
[1:01:48 – 1:01:49] Adam: These ravens in the shade.
[1:01:49 – 1:01:51] Adam: shed are having a wild time.
[1:01:51 – 1:01:53] Adam: There are not ravens in your house right now.
[1:01:53 – 1:01:57] Adam: Continuous sing song monologues often by themselves.
[1:01:57 – 1:01:59] Erik: Oh yeah.
[1:02:01 – 1:02:05] Erik: There are some crazy ones like I remember at the kennel over in Isabella.
[1:02:05 – 1:02:13] Erik: They get these weird metallic like like the weird telling a joke to their friends or something alone.
[1:02:14 – 1:02:17] Erik: Metallic sing song things were like I didn’t even nailed it.
[1:02:17 – 1:02:19] Erik: An animal could make a noise like that.
[1:02:20 – 1:02:24] Adam: Two experts at mimicry, including human language and machinery.
[1:02:25 – 1:02:27] Adam: There’s multiple stories in the book about this.
[1:02:27 – 1:02:37] Adam: I don’t want to spoil any of those, but they’re hilarious, but they can, they’re more than a parrot or a starling or any other of the famous birds that can talk or whatever.
[1:02:39 – 1:02:46] Adam: They can replicate human voices to a T. There’s like stories in here how they fool people.
[1:02:46 – 1:02:46] Adam: Nice.
[1:02:46 – 1:02:47] Adam: I love it.
[1:02:47 – 1:02:48] Adam: I’m not going to say anything more.
[1:02:48 – 1:02:50] Adam: We’re not going to try that one.
[1:02:50 – 1:02:58] Adam: Number one, they’re known to have dialects and accents, a regional vocabulary, and even to use slang terms.
[1:02:58 – 1:02:59] Erik: Oof-da.
[1:02:59 – 1:03:00] Adam: Exactly.
[1:03:00 – 1:03:00] Adam: Yeah.
[1:03:01 – 1:03:07] Adam: A Raven over in Morehead wouldn’t necessarily get the UFTA or maybe they would, maybe they’d have their own kind of UFTA.
[1:03:08 – 1:03:16] Adam: Also, you know, you and the Ravens from Wausau, uh, at the, at the quick trip probably wouldn’t be able to fully understand the Ravens in Morehead.
[1:03:16 – 1:03:20] Erik: How’s she going by exactly from Attic Hogan?
[1:03:20 – 1:03:23] Adam: Yeah, no, I mean, there’s a lot and I’m not going to spoil this either.
[1:03:24 – 1:03:24] Adam: Get the book.
[1:03:25 – 1:03:35] Adam: There’s a lot of examples of this kind of vocabulary stuff in there that is just fascinating the way that they document it from region to region point to point over the years.
[1:03:36 – 1:03:38] Adam: It’s learned behavior too.
[1:03:38 – 1:03:42] Adam: Like these dialects and slangs are learned from nest to nest or whatever.
[1:03:42 – 1:03:51] Adam: It would be like if you have 10 nests in a square mile, the nests on the corners wouldn’t be able to listen to each other as best as like the nest in the middle would speak all the different languages.
[1:03:52 – 1:03:52] Adam: Yeah.
[1:03:52 – 1:03:54] Adam: It’s pretty neat to like hear.
[1:03:54 – 1:03:56] Adam: That was one of my favorite chapters for sure.
[1:03:56 – 1:03:59] Adam: It was on like the regional dialects of Raven.
[1:03:59 – 1:04:13] Erik: Yeah, a microcosm of basically the things that we say that you can hone in all the way down to just even a household or a specific business in terms of like inside jokes or turns of phrase.
[1:04:13 – 1:04:14] Erik: Yeah, exactly.
[1:04:14 – 1:04:21] Erik: All of a sudden, a bunch of people in a workplace say a thing that if you said that outside of that place would be like, what?
[1:04:21 – 1:04:22] Erik: What is wrong with this guy?
[1:04:22 – 1:04:22] Erik: What does that even mean?
[1:04:23 – 1:04:27] Erik: But if you said it in front of nine people that knew what you were talking about, yeah, I get it.
[1:04:28 – 1:04:28] Adam: Yeah.
[1:04:28 – 1:04:34] Adam: Well, anyways, I think this is evidence, big evidence that they’re the super intelligence.
[1:04:35 – 1:04:36] Adam: It’s communication.
[1:04:36 – 1:04:36] Adam: It’s language.
[1:04:37 – 1:04:38] Erik: Evidence of intelligence.
[1:04:38 – 1:04:39] Adam: Absolutely.
[1:04:39 – 1:04:51] Adam: I mean, if a bird can have a slang or an accent, you know, I mean, that’s not just that’s just that’s not happenstance that that does happen.
[1:04:51 – 1:04:51] Erik: Yeah.
[1:04:52 – 1:04:53] Adam: I mean, that’s the best way to put it.
[1:04:53 – 1:04:55] Adam: But you get what we’re saying.
[1:04:55 – 1:04:58] Erik: It’s still like I say evidence for intelligence, but it’s not at the same.
[1:04:58 – 1:05:04] Erik: You know, it’s it’s so subjective, like what intelligence is like as we.
[1:05:06 – 1:05:12] Erik: As humans define it, you know, that’s our that’s our perspective on intelligence.
[1:05:13 – 1:05:13] Adam: Yeah.
[1:05:14 – 1:05:18] Adam: And that’s just like in the everyday observation of the bird today.
[1:05:19 – 1:05:25] Adam: They have this, you know, but we can presume they’ve always had these language skills a way, way long time back.
[1:05:26 – 1:05:28] Adam: That’s how you say that.
[1:05:29 – 1:05:34] Adam: Notice how I’m using gestures to articulate my point of emphasis, Eric.
[1:05:35 – 1:05:37] Adam: We are going to stretch time at this point in the episode.
[1:05:38 – 1:05:43] Adam: Now we’re going to start talking about galactic scales of evolution in the bird.
[1:05:43 – 1:05:51] Adam: The raven has been on this planet as long as any of us could have been around and even farther back.
[1:05:51 – 1:05:54] Adam: I’m not saying there’s ravens when there’s dinosaurs.
[1:05:54 – 1:05:54] Adam: Crocodile?
[1:05:55 – 1:05:57] Adam: Yeah, they’re not quite as old as the crocodile, but they’re old.
[1:05:58 – 1:06:01] Adam: They’ve been here a long time, and they’ve been doing quite well for themselves.
[1:06:02 – 1:06:03] Adam: Yeah, they seem to be.
[1:06:04 – 1:06:11] Adam: And they’ve made relationships on this planet with other creatures that aren’t us that are more important.
[1:06:12 – 1:06:15] Adam: There’s a reason why they won’t come near us and they don’t trust us.
[1:06:15 – 1:06:20] Adam: They’re very shy birds, and we’ve only just been introduced with them.
[1:06:21 – 1:06:35] Erik: I mean, I don’t know where you’re at in the book reporting here, but in the past, when we’ve talked about specific animals, there’s always a discussion on how they relate to the ecosystem at large and other animals around them.
[1:06:35 – 1:06:35] Erik: Yeah.
[1:06:36 – 1:06:45] Erik: And, you know, specifically the beaver as being a keystone species and how they affect an area specifically.
[1:06:46 – 1:06:51] Erik: and being able to provide life for other animals and make their lives easier and or better.
[1:06:53 – 1:07:05] Erik: The ravens don’t necessarily strike me as an animal that, like, without them, like, without the ravens, you wouldn’t have sweet trout ponds, you know, like beavers and the such.
[1:07:05 – 1:07:05] Erik: Right.
[1:07:06 – 1:07:14] Erik: Like, I mean, unless there’s something coming down the line in your report here, it doesn’t seem like almost more…
[1:07:16 – 1:07:17] Erik: They’re like the human bird.
[1:07:18 – 1:07:20] Adam: They are, as we said early in the show, individuals.
[1:07:21 – 1:07:24] Adam: They are not part of the collective so much.
[1:07:24 – 1:07:26] Erik: They’re successful in what they do.
[1:07:26 – 1:07:29] Erik: They’re not necessarily reliant on anybody else.
[1:07:29 – 1:07:37] Erik: Nobody really relies on them necessarily besides, I don’t know, maybe some microscopic or some smaller things.
[1:07:37 – 1:07:41] Adam: Yeah, I guess I wouldn’t be comfortable saying nobody relies on ravens.
[1:07:41 – 1:07:43] Adam: They scavenge bones or whatever.
[1:07:44 – 1:07:55] Adam: And they’re kind of in between the wolf and the smaller life forms that might rely on a carcass that has been fallen.
[1:07:55 – 1:07:58] Adam: In that way, maybe they help to process.
[1:07:58 – 1:08:06] Adam: But I can say confidently from reading the book that they can’t get at a carcass unless the wolf gets to it first.
[1:08:06 – 1:08:12] Adam: They need the wolf, but then they help to clean up the bits that the wolf wouldn’t get to.
[1:08:12 – 1:08:14] Erik: Do they control anything on their own?
[1:08:15 – 1:08:19] Adam: But then I would have to think, and they don’t really get to this in the book.
[1:08:20 – 1:08:22] Adam: Burnt doesn’t really get to this in the book.
[1:08:22 – 1:08:33] Adam: There has to be other critters down the food chain that also benefit from them working on a carcass too, I would think.
[1:08:33 – 1:08:36] Adam: The book doesn’t really go there, but it’s a good question.
[1:08:37 – 1:08:40] Adam: I assume that there is somebody that benefits from what the ravens do to like,
[1:08:41 – 1:08:45] Adam: Because, you know, like I said earlier, they’ll eat anything, but I mean, mostly they eat meat.
[1:08:46 – 1:08:49] Erik: Do they count as a bird of prey?
[1:08:49 – 1:08:50] Erik: Yeah.
[1:08:50 – 1:08:51] Erik: Oh, yeah.
[1:08:52 – 1:08:55] Erik: So they don’t need carry-on and roadkill and all that.
[1:08:56 – 1:08:57] Erik: But they will take advantage of it, though.
[1:08:57 – 1:08:58] Adam: There goes the finger again.
[1:08:59 – 1:08:59] Adam: There goes the finger.
[1:08:59 – 1:09:00] Adam: Stop with the finger.
[1:09:01 – 1:09:02] Adam: They will.
[1:09:02 – 1:09:02] Adam: They’ll take advantage.
[1:09:02 – 1:09:04] Adam: They’re very opportunistic feeders.
[1:09:05 – 1:09:05] Adam: Yes, of course.
[1:09:06 – 1:09:15] Adam: But, yeah, the book doesn’t really address this, but I would assume that there are other smaller animals that benefit from what the ravens do.
[1:09:15 – 1:09:39] Adam: yeah but they’re not they’re not like there to benefit other animals not like the beavers are for sure yeah but they can hunt and do their own they don’t need a road no they can take they will like they take down prey on their own they don’t need like a wolf kill no but they often benefit from a wolf kill and it’s a big part of their success and wherever wolves have done well then the ravens do very well
[1:09:40 – 1:09:42] Adam: And this is what the next part of the book is about.
[1:09:42 – 1:09:45] Adam: It’s the relationship between the raven and the wolf.
[1:09:45 – 1:09:47] Adam: They are often called the wolf bird.
[1:09:47 – 1:09:48] Adam: Sure.
[1:09:48 – 1:09:52] Adam: And I feel like that’s where this story intersects at this point in Yellowstone.
[1:09:52 – 1:09:52] Erik: Yeah, the most.
[1:09:52 – 1:09:54] Erik: Your favorite national park.
[1:09:54 – 1:10:01] Erik: Human of animals is like they’re not going out of their way, especially these days.
[1:10:01 – 1:10:05] Adam: Yeah, they’re not going out of their way to help anyone else, but they might accidentally be helping someone.
[1:10:05 – 1:10:10] Erik: And they’re not going out of their way to help themselves directly.
[1:10:10 – 1:10:12] Erik: They’re going to take advantage of other people’s hard work.
[1:10:12 – 1:10:15] Adam: They are very advantageous.
[1:10:15 – 1:10:19] Adam: I would say that ravens are a hard-working bird.
[1:10:19 – 1:10:21] Adam: Hard-working bird?
[1:10:21 – 1:10:22] Adam: But they fly around.
[1:10:22 – 1:10:26] Adam: They fly miles and miles a day looking for opportunities.
[1:10:26 – 1:10:28] Adam: I would say they’re opportunistic.
[1:10:28 – 1:10:30] Erik: If they had a collar, what color would it be?
[1:10:33 – 1:10:33] Adam: Other than black?
[1:10:34 – 1:10:37] Erik: Blue collar birds, white collar birds.
[1:10:37 – 1:10:38] Adam: I would say black.
[1:10:38 – 1:10:39] Adam: Day traders.
[1:10:39 – 1:10:40] Adam: What’s that mean?
[1:10:40 – 1:10:40] Adam: I don’t know.
[1:10:41 – 1:10:42] Erik: Black collar.
[1:10:42 – 1:10:43] Adam: Yeah, they’re just black-collar.
[1:10:43 – 1:10:45] Adam: They’re just nature, man.
[1:10:45 – 1:10:47] Adam: They’re not part of this ecosystem.
[1:10:48 – 1:10:49] Adam: They’re hardy.
[1:10:49 – 1:10:51] Adam: I would say they’re black-collar bird.
[1:10:51 – 1:10:53] Adam: Black-collar implies that they are priests.
[1:10:54 – 1:10:55] Adam: Oh, I don’t like that.
[1:10:56 – 1:10:58] Adam: I would just say they’re no-collar then.
[1:10:59 – 1:11:00] Adam: They can’t be collared.
[1:11:00 – 1:11:01] Adam: No-collared.
[1:11:01 – 1:11:02] Adam: Yeah, there we go.
[1:11:02 – 1:11:03] Adam: I think that’s the right answer.
[1:11:03 – 1:11:04] Erik: Yeah.
[1:11:04 – 1:11:05] Erik: No collars, no sleeves.
[1:11:06 – 1:11:30] Adam: yeah all the guns out funds out the ravens had a choice to feed with wolves or to feed without them they invariably had chosen to be with the wolves they had to fed they had fed where the wolves were currently feeding or had just recently fed these observations given the ravens fears that i had that i had observed personally
[1:11:32 – 1:11:38] Adam: Were about as non-intuitive and surprising as anything I had ever seen or heard about ravens, it didn’t make sense.
[1:11:39 – 1:11:50] Adam: Then I thought about my main ravens, who were so shy near carcasses I had thought they might be almost paralytically afraid of dangerous ground predators.
[1:11:50 – 1:11:51] Adam: Did I have it backwards?
[1:11:52 – 1:11:56] Adam: Had they been afraid because there was no wolves at carcasses?
[1:11:56 – 1:11:57] Adam: I became excited.
[1:11:58 – 1:11:59] Adam: I wanted even more data.
[1:11:59 – 1:12:01] Adam: Maybe ravens are wolf birds.
[1:12:02 – 1:12:15] Adam: Maybe they had evolved with wolves in a mutualism that is millions of years old, so that they have innate behaviors that link them to wolves, making them uncomfortable without the wolves’ presence.
[1:12:18 – 1:12:25] Adam: Ravens appear to follow wolves and both possess the psychological mechanisms necessary for forming social attachments.
[1:12:25 – 1:12:31] Adam: Individuals of each species include members of the other in their social group, forming bonds with them.
[1:12:32 – 1:12:36] Adam: The attraction between raven and wolf is a reflection of ancient selective pressures.
[1:12:37 – 1:12:43] Adam: The raven-wolf relationship may be close to a symbiosis that benefits the wolf and raven alike.
[1:12:44 – 1:12:50] Adam: Wolf kills prey, raven cleans up the scraps and acts as eyes and ears for the pack from the air.
[1:12:50 – 1:12:56] Adam: Ravens form similar bonds with dogs as well and other predators like big cats and bears.
[1:12:57 – 1:12:57] Adam: There you go.
[1:12:59 – 1:13:01] Adam: I like this term.
[1:13:01 – 1:13:10] Adam: They kind of imply it, but they literally follow wolf packs around and kind of watch out for them from the air.
[1:13:11 – 1:13:15] Adam: They are the air force for ground predators, like alpha ground predator.
[1:13:16 – 1:13:17] Adam: Yeah.
[1:13:17 – 1:13:26] Adam: And there is a lot of this in the book, too, that I don’t want to get into too much, but there’s a lot of evidence that they will call them to an injured animal.
[1:13:27 – 1:13:28] Adam: They’ll find a good target and be like, eh.
[1:13:32 – 1:13:52] Adam: I mean, I’m not going to get into this too much, but there’s a lot of this in the book, too, that we’re not going to get into in this episode that they do like kind of act as the eyes and ears reconnaissance, if you will, from the air for like Wolfpack or, you know, bears or I guess even mountain lion in some instances.
[1:13:53 – 1:13:54] Adam: They will kind of like lead.
[1:13:55 – 1:14:01] Adam: So it is sort of a in this way, there is some sort of advantage to what they do and being able to fly and move around.
[1:14:02 – 1:14:11] Adam: They cover all these miles and they can kind of like they can direct the predator below and then also take advantage when the predator does have success.
[1:14:12 – 1:14:12] Adam: Sure.
[1:14:12 – 1:14:14] Adam: Which is super interesting.
[1:14:14 – 1:14:16] Adam: And like I it was one of my favorite parts of the book.
[1:14:17 – 1:14:38] Adam: this huge passage of the book takes place in yellowstone following around these wolves and uh ravens that work together it is sort of like a partnership that they have and uh yeah like they would they would say like this is one thing i can remember for sure that i didn’t write down but like they would be flying from the air to like watch the wolves
[1:14:38 – 1:14:43] Adam: But then they learned that like the best way to find the wolves would be to look for the flock of ravens.
[1:14:43 – 1:14:48] Adam: And they’d see like the ravens moving around and then they’d look and like, okay, there’s the wolves right there.
[1:14:49 – 1:14:52] Adam: They’d be always like together, you know, working together.
[1:14:52 – 1:14:52] Adam: So, yeah.
[1:14:54 – 1:15:02] Adam: You know, and wolves and ravens in North America specifically have been together way, way longer than we have been here, you know.
[1:15:03 – 1:15:04] Adam: Yeah.
[1:15:04 – 1:15:13] Adam: I’m not going to go and give out any specific numbers or anything because I don’t have them, but that relationship is more ancient than anything we have going on here.
[1:15:14 – 1:15:20] Adam: And that, I guess for me, that was like the part of the book where I was like, this is a book I really want to talk about it on the show.
[1:15:21 – 1:15:23] Adam: I love that ancient, that ancient stuff.
[1:15:24 – 1:15:25] Erik: Yeah, that’s crazy.
[1:15:25 – 1:15:36] Erik: And probably a ton of subcontext between those two species that we’ll most likely never understand.
[1:15:37 – 1:15:38] Adam: Yeah, and that’s the best part.
[1:15:38 – 1:15:40] Adam: You will never really understand it.
[1:15:40 – 1:15:43] Erik: It’s like, well, it seems like something’s going on here, but.
[1:15:44 – 1:16:08] Adam: who i mean they’re probably both going off of each other obviously they’re not like sitting down at the end of the day and having conversations but yeah i’m not saying they’re friends or anything no i know exactly i think they tolerate each other probably is the best way to put it yeah and that they they do kind of benefit from each other and i and like i said there’s probably there’s other animals out there that benefit from the ravens being there to like
[1:16:09 – 1:16:18] Adam: Pick at it, but there’s definitely parts of the book where they’re like, the ravens couldn’t get at this hunk of meat until the wolves came and ripped it up and got at it.
[1:16:18 – 1:16:22] Adam: And then the ravens could kind of get the bits and the pieces.
[1:16:22 – 1:16:29] Erik: And maybe the ravens do something to a carcass that provides for a more attainable meal to a smaller animal as well.
[1:16:29 – 1:16:29] Adam: Yeah.
[1:16:29 – 1:16:34] Adam: So, I mean, that’s just the circle of life.
[1:16:34 – 1:16:36] Adam: We’re definitely not adding Lion King.
[1:16:36 – 1:16:36] Adam: Put Lion King on the board!
[1:16:36 – 1:16:38] Adam: No, we’re not doing it.
[1:16:38 – 1:16:38] Adam: Simba.
[1:16:39 – 1:16:39] Adam: No, Simba.
[1:16:42 – 1:16:46] Adam: The last part of the book is the name of the book.
[1:16:46 – 1:16:47] Adam: It’s The Mind of the Raven.
[1:16:48 – 1:16:50] Adam: And I think it’s time we get to the secondary beer of the night.
[1:16:51 – 1:16:54] Adam: This is a special, special sponsor of the beer.
[1:16:54 – 1:16:55] Adam: Deep sponsor.
[1:16:55 – 1:16:57] Adam: Deep from the fridge.
[1:16:58 – 1:17:02] Adam: This is a very good friend of the show.
[1:17:03 – 1:17:05] Adam: I’m sure still listening.
[1:17:05 – 1:17:05] Adam: Aldi 1.
[1:17:07 – 1:17:12] Adam: And this is a Bent Paddle Golden IPA India Pale Ale.
[1:17:12 – 1:17:13] Erik: Sorry, LD1.
[1:17:13 – 1:17:16] Erik: That got lost in the fridge.
[1:17:17 – 1:17:25] Adam: Well, we found him in the back of the fridge today looking for… We were kind of shuffling the fridge around after we installed the whiteboard and found the…
[1:17:25 – 1:17:26] Adam: He dropped these off in, like, June.
[1:17:27 – 1:17:27] Adam: Well, that’s…
[1:17:28 – 1:17:31] Erik: When I was bright-eyed and bushy-tailed about the future of Clearwater.
[1:17:31 – 1:17:32] Adam: You’re still bright-eyed.
[1:17:32 – 1:17:34] Adam: My tail is no longer bushy.
[1:17:34 – 1:17:36] Adam: It’s wiry.
[1:17:36 – 1:17:37] Adam: Hairs are falling out.
[1:17:39 – 1:17:40] Adam: Anyways, thank you all, D1.
[1:17:40 – 1:17:45] Adam: It’s going to be a good’un.
[1:17:45 – 1:17:46] Erik: Some bent hops.
[1:17:53 – 1:17:53] Erik: Deep sponsors.
[1:17:55 – 1:18:00] Erik: Yeah, I mean, five out of five bushy tails.
[1:18:00 – 1:18:01] Adam: Absolutely.
[1:18:01 – 1:18:05] Adam: Can’t even comprehend how bushy these tails are.
[1:18:06 – 1:18:10] Adam: We’re going to finish this story up about the mind.
[1:18:10 – 1:18:21] Adam: As I promised, they are smarter and weirder, and they occupy a larger section of the globe than any dolphin.
[1:18:21 – 1:18:23] Adam: What else do you think of as a smart critter?
[1:18:24 – 1:18:32] Adam: I didn’t think, I guess I just, before I read this book, Eric, I didn’t, I guess I didn’t think of Ravens as a smart bird, like a smart critter in that way.
[1:18:32 – 1:18:33] Adam: Not just a bird.
[1:18:33 – 1:18:36] Adam: Cause you always think of like, Oh, they’re bird brained.
[1:18:36 – 1:18:37] Adam: Birds already get a bad rap.
[1:18:38 – 1:18:39] Adam: There goes the finger again.
[1:18:39 – 1:18:43] Adam: This guy, he’s got the finger motions.
[1:18:44 – 1:18:47] Adam: They’re a little rude, but to the point.
[1:18:47 – 1:18:50] Adam: There’s a term bird brain for a reason.
[1:18:50 – 1:18:59] Adam: You don’t think of birds as being super smart, and then you hear of like, oh, yeah, dolphins, they can solve complex puzzles.
[1:19:00 – 1:19:01] Adam: What else would be smart?
[1:19:01 – 1:19:02] Adam: Like an orca?
[1:19:02 – 1:19:02] Erik: I don’t know.
[1:19:02 – 1:19:05] Erik: Don’t dolphins commit sexual harassment on each other, though?
[1:19:05 – 1:19:08] Adam: Yeah, but they’re also very sexy, I think.
[1:19:08 – 1:19:10] Adam: I guess they’re all smooth with rounded edges.
[1:19:10 – 1:19:11] Adam: It’s hard not to be horny.
[1:19:12 – 1:19:12] Erik: I don’t know.
[1:19:13 – 1:19:18] Erik: I’ve always actually thought that ravens were relatively smart just based on driving around.
[1:19:18 – 1:19:24] Adam: I felt like owls get the bird smart thing where they’re like, owls are very wise, mysterious.
[1:19:25 – 1:19:27] Adam: I think owls are honestly kind of dumb, no?
[1:19:27 – 1:19:27] Adam: Yeah.
[1:19:28 – 1:19:31] Adam: Maybe we’ll do a report on owls someday.
[1:19:32 – 1:19:35] Erik: Stay tuned for that owl episode.
[1:19:35 – 1:19:37] Adam: No, but owls are smart.
[1:19:38 – 1:19:39] Adam: Dolphins are smart.
[1:19:39 – 1:19:40] Erik: I don’t think owls are smart.
[1:19:40 – 1:19:44] Erik: I think they’re highly adapted and skilled predators.
[1:19:44 – 1:19:45] Adam: They’re wary.
[1:19:45 – 1:20:07] Erik: no they’re like a and they’re yeah they’re like uh they’re like a hyper gaston like not necessarily smart but like what they’re doing yeah is they’re very good at they’re like that that fine like that string on a violin that’s tuned the tightest ding yeah too tight almost yeah i mean you’re crossing over into territory that i have no realm of
[1:20:08 – 1:20:11] Erik: no frame of reference at all, but like, I don’t know.
[1:20:11 – 1:20:21] Erik: I just, just as a like personal anecdote and what I see from Ravens, just the way that they’re like, yeah, I know you’re not going to cross that white line.
[1:20:21 – 1:20:23] Erik: So I’m going to hop two steps to the left here.
[1:20:24 – 1:20:24] Erik: Yeah.
[1:20:24 – 1:20:26] Erik: Two steps over to the right.
[1:20:26 – 1:20:26] Erik: Yeah.
[1:20:26 – 1:20:27] Erik: They don’t fly off.
[1:20:27 – 1:20:28] Erik: They just never fly there.
[1:20:28 – 1:20:31] Adam: I was just like, I like how sometimes I’ll just be walking.
[1:20:31 – 1:20:37] Adam: They’ll be like, you know, like look up and there’s a couple of them just going over and like,
[1:20:38 – 1:21:03] Adam: ah eat ass ravens but i love you you know i can’t get mad at them but they i think it’s like one of the only animals out there that will like talk a little smack on you maybe a little bit i think they like they actively engage with you but they also know you can’t ever catch them so they’re just elusive i got a little bit of smack talk back in the day when we would you know when i worked at the kennel yeah they knew exactly how far how close they could get because the dogs were on chains
[1:21:04 – 1:21:06] Adam: Well, they do hang around kennels a lot.
[1:21:07 – 1:21:11] Erik: Because they knew they could just nibble that edge of food piece.
[1:21:12 – 1:21:17] Erik: And they knew they would antagonize those dogs so much.
[1:21:18 – 1:21:19] Erik: Here’s a good story.
[1:21:19 – 1:21:21] Erik: I guarantee there was a dialect at that kennel.
[1:21:21 – 1:21:22] Erik: Yeah.
[1:21:22 – 1:21:30] Erik: Because there were some noises I heard there that it sounded like it was robotic metallic noises of these birds flying around.
[1:21:30 – 1:21:33] Adam: It sounds like the monster from Lost a lot.
[1:21:34 – 1:21:38] Adam: Like that clinking chain smoke monster noise.
[1:21:38 – 1:21:39] Adam: Yeah.
[1:21:39 – 1:21:40] Adam: Yeah.
[1:21:42 – 1:21:49] Adam: If you have an old iPhone, I think they still have it, and there’s a classic ringtone, robot ringtone.
[1:21:49 – 1:21:50] Adam: Raven can make that.
[1:21:50 – 1:21:58] Adam: And if you played it for them 10 times, they would play it back to you without a single error in it.
[1:21:58 – 1:22:02] Adam: They’re perfectionists, and their vocabulary is amazing, but…
[1:22:03 – 1:22:04] Adam: I don’t know.
[1:22:04 – 1:22:05] Adam: I really like them a lot.
[1:22:05 – 1:22:10] Adam: The more I know about Ravens now, the more I see them around because they’re everywhere.
[1:22:10 – 1:22:10] Erik: Yeah.
[1:22:11 – 1:22:14] Adam: It’s not one of those things like Moose where it’s a magical experience.
[1:22:15 – 1:22:18] Adam: Moose are dumb as a GD rock.
[1:22:18 – 1:22:18] Erik: Probably.
[1:22:18 – 1:22:23] Adam: You know, once in a blue moon, you see them out there munching on some cabbage out in the woods or whatever.
[1:22:23 – 1:22:25] Adam: You know, a raven, you see them every day.
[1:22:26 – 1:22:31] Adam: It’s more of an accessible creature that you actually are going to, like, be a part of.
[1:22:31 – 1:22:35] Adam: And it’s pretty neat just to, like, understand that they also have a mind.
[1:22:36 – 1:22:38] Adam: Maybe they’re not geniuses or whatever, but they have a mind.
[1:22:38 – 1:22:39] Erik: Yeah.
[1:22:39 – 1:22:42] Adam: How many animals out there do you know that have a mind?
[1:22:42 – 1:22:42] Adam: I mean, I don’t know.
[1:22:42 – 1:22:47] Adam: I mean, being honest, I run into a lot of people that.
[1:22:47 – 1:22:47] Erik: There it is.
[1:22:47 – 1:22:48] Erik: Here it comes.
[1:22:50 – 1:22:51] Adam: They’re not too bright.
[1:22:52 – 1:22:54] Erik: Not too bright.
[1:22:55 – 1:23:04] Erik: It always elicits the Gary Paulson far side comic of the unseen side of nature.
[1:23:05 – 1:23:13] Erik: We emptied the beer recycling tote, and we’re working on filling it back up, if you heard that.
[1:23:13 – 1:23:14] Adam: Yeah, make sure you recycle.
[1:23:14 – 1:23:15] Adam: It’s important.
[1:23:15 – 1:23:29] Erik: But the one Farside comic where it’s a deer jumping over a downed branch, and it’s a huge buck, and it’s jumping over this branch, and you can clearly tell that its antlers are going to slam into another large branch coming off of a tree.
[1:23:30 – 1:23:44] Erik: Like, I wonder how often if that, if, you know, if it ever happens, when stuff like that happens, where it’s like a moose just like gets all wrangled and twisted in something.
[1:23:44 – 1:23:44] Erik: Yeah.
[1:23:44 – 1:23:47] Erik: Like you said, you always seem like, did you see that?
[1:23:48 – 1:24:00] Erik: it’s so majestic and then cut to like 10 minutes later after you’ve like spooked it off of the road where it’s like antlers are all caught and stuff it’s not looking so majestic now yeah
[1:24:02 – 1:24:08] Adam: You know, I guess when I moved up here, I had just had no idea what the Ravens were all even doing.
[1:24:08 – 1:24:11] Adam: And, you know, I don’t know.
[1:24:12 – 1:24:16] Adam: Just think of them like they are highly intelligent.
[1:24:17 – 1:24:21] Adam: The thing I can take away from this book is they’re highly intelligent.
[1:24:22 – 1:24:23] Adam: What is intelligence?
[1:24:23 – 1:24:24] Adam: It’s hard to say.
[1:24:24 – 1:24:28] Adam: This last passage, I hope, will hope to clear this up.
[1:24:28 – 1:24:38] Adam: And I hope this bestows upon people this kind of idea that they’re not just some crazy bird out there looking for a snack.
[1:24:38 – 1:24:42] Adam: I mean, they might be, but they’re doing their own thing.
[1:24:42 – 1:24:43] Adam: Aren’t we all?
[1:24:43 – 1:24:45] Adam: Aren’t we all just doing our own thing?
[1:24:47 – 1:24:54] Adam: The details of Raven’s behavior indicate to me that the birds predict and anticipate the behavior of others.
[1:24:54 – 1:24:58] Adam: That may be as close to exhibiting consciousness as it gets.
[1:24:59 – 1:25:12] Adam: To react flexibly in an anticipatory manner to a wide range of actions before they have occurred makes the hypothesis that the animal knows what it is doing increasingly more plausible.
[1:25:14 – 1:25:14] Adam: We got through it.
[1:25:15 – 1:25:21] Adam: Animals have evolved to minimize energy use whenever possible.
[1:25:22 – 1:25:33] Adam: Large metabolically expansive brains would only have developed and be maintained for very compelling reasons.
[1:25:35 – 1:25:46] Adam: We can infer that sensory processing and motor coordination alone do not explain why dolphins, humans, and ravens have such large brains compared to overall body mass.
[1:25:47 – 1:26:04] Adam: One suggestion that neurobiologists have made is that the often limited stimulus load that the animal accepts from the environment is considerably less demanding in terms of number of neurons required than what is done with the stimuli.
[1:26:05 – 1:26:09] Adam: How large stores of memories are projected and manipulated.
[1:26:09 – 1:26:20] Adam: Different animals, in effect, not only see different worlds, they also handle the incoming information in different ways to create different worlds in their heads.
[1:26:21 – 1:26:24] Adam: They remember the past and plan for the future.
[1:26:26 – 1:26:32] Adam: I think that is ultimately what this book is telling us means you have intelligence.
[1:26:32 – 1:26:41] Adam: If you can think about the past and the future while living in the present, then you are classified as intelligent.
[1:26:41 – 1:26:47] Adam: And I would say anybody who could read this book would conclude that ravens do this.
[1:26:48 – 1:26:52] Adam: But what is time, though?
[1:26:52 – 1:26:52] Adam: I mean, honestly.
[1:26:52 – 1:27:10] Erik: Well, I guess to my… That was a good description of what may be potentially a description of animal intelligence.
[1:27:11 – 1:27:12] Erik: Ravens, dolphins…
[1:27:13 – 1:27:20] Erik: Anything that we may have in the past or in the future attribute intelligence to.
[1:27:21 – 1:27:29] Erik: But I think at the end of the day, there’s a big delineation point of something about the…
[1:27:31 – 1:27:56] Adam: consciousness of mortality like that is the starting point of intelligence to a certain degree if you like understand you will die like that is like that is what that’s where it is that’s like the starting point of intelligence for me and i could be not that like oh it might it might be cold in a month i should store away some more frog innards in this uh bunker
[1:27:56 – 1:27:59] Erik: And that’s the one thing that I don’t know.
[1:28:00 – 1:28:05] Erik: Are there any animals outside of human that understand that?
[1:28:05 – 1:28:08] Adam: I would argue that most humans don’t understand that.
[1:28:09 – 1:28:11] Erik: Well, that’s also next week on Tumble Home.
[1:28:11 – 1:28:14] Erik: We’re going to be talking about mortality and how we understand it.
[1:28:15 – 1:28:16] Erik: Yeah, no, I get what you’re saying there, too.
[1:28:16 – 1:28:21] Adam: No, I mean, for real, though, I would say most humans don’t really understand or comprehend that.
[1:28:22 – 1:28:31] Erik: I mean, it’s a light thought for most, I would say at least, and an overbearing and jackhammering anxiety.
[1:28:31 – 1:28:45] Adam: I would say these thoughts exactly were what was in my mind when I was thinking about the show earlier today when I was listening to Father John Misty, which is why I started the show with those lyrics.
[1:28:46 – 1:28:49] Adam: This idea of this black hole of consciousness…
[1:28:50 – 1:28:51] Adam: What is happening in this world?
[1:28:51 – 1:28:53] Adam: Does anybody else even comprehend what’s happening?
[1:28:54 – 1:29:00] Adam: I don’t know if Raven’s going to comprehend that level of mortality, as you put it.
[1:29:00 – 1:29:14] Erik: Yeah, and not to side tangent or side whatever it again, but that’s one of the biggest things I was struggling with the most on my trip out west.
[1:29:14 – 1:29:19] Erik: And anytime you spend enough time alone, as you really start to wonder…
[1:29:19 – 1:29:21] Erik: Does anybody else have these thoughts?
[1:29:22 – 1:29:22] Erik: Is it just me?
[1:29:23 – 1:29:25] Erik: I’m not saying that’s a good thing or a bad thing.
[1:29:25 – 1:29:39] Erik: I’m not purporting myself to be any more intelligent than others, but that’s why I guess to a certain level, it does bring me comfort that there is a level of communication between these birds that they’re not.
[1:29:41 – 1:29:45] Erik: They’re not stuck in their own heads.
[1:29:45 – 1:29:50] Erik: That’s the kind of intelligence I wish I had, to be honest with you.
[1:29:50 – 1:29:58] Erik: The self-consciousness of being human and the great understanding, as far as I can tell.
[1:29:58 – 1:30:03] Erik: It’s not great, but it is, I would say, great compared to most.
[1:30:04 – 1:30:05] Erik: It’s a blessing and a curse.
[1:30:07 – 1:30:08] Erik: Ignorance is bliss.
[1:30:09 – 1:30:32] Adam: yeah but you know do you ever you like never really learn anything about yourself for this life until you like become vulnerable to others and expose like to open yourself up to others like that and that’s what i found in this book that these ravens do have that kind of relationship with each other that i’ve not seen in many other other creatures other than
[1:30:34 – 1:30:37] Adam: you and I, these ravens.
[1:30:38 – 1:30:39] Adam: Just you and I.
[1:30:40 – 1:30:42] Adam: No, but human beings.
[1:30:42 – 1:30:47] Adam: The ability to form a connection with another being.
[1:30:48 – 1:30:50] Adam: If you read this book, you will see that too.
[1:30:50 – 1:31:00] Adam: Again, I know we’ve read a lot from this book tonight, and I really like this book, and I hope everybody listening to this show does read it, but
[1:31:00 – 1:31:03] Erik: And if you can’t tell, Adam is pointing his finger at you.
[1:31:04 – 1:31:05] Erik: Right through the microphone.
[1:31:05 – 1:31:06] Erik: He’s spread it out.
[1:31:06 – 1:31:07] Erik: It’s all five fingers.
[1:31:07 – 1:31:09] Erik: He’s five finger on two hands.
[1:31:09 – 1:31:10] Erik: His wagon.
[1:31:10 – 1:31:10] Erik: That equals ten.
[1:31:11 – 1:31:12] Adam: They call him the professor.
[1:31:12 – 1:31:12] Erik: Yeah.
[1:31:13 – 1:31:17] Adam: And we’re going to raft that river in Missouri, even though Preacher Father doesn’t like it.
[1:31:18 – 1:31:23] Adam: That’s a deep reference to Tumble Home Cinema Classics, episode 14, River Runs Through It.
[1:31:23 – 1:31:25] Adam: Yeah.
[1:31:25 – 1:31:36] Adam: No, I mean, I guess this is part of what I wanted to get to in this story was that they’re very complicated.
[1:31:36 – 1:31:40] Adam: I just figured they’re like these birds making crazy noises.
[1:31:40 – 1:31:41] Adam: Yeah.
[1:31:41 – 1:31:50] Adam: And maybe they aren’t beavers and they’re helping millions of insects live or whatever and toad salamanders and pond frog or whatever, but…
[1:31:51 – 1:32:01] Adam: They are, in their own way, a very magnificent creature that I guess I underestimated for most of my life.
[1:32:01 – 1:32:08] Erik: And maybe that is also part of their standing in this world.
[1:32:09 – 1:32:09] Adam: Plus, they’re just funny.
[1:32:10 – 1:32:13] Adam: I mean, the noises they make are quite funny.
[1:32:13 – 1:32:14] Adam: They also fly funny.
[1:32:15 – 1:32:16] Erik: I mean, I don’t know.
[1:32:16 – 1:32:19] Erik: Again, Berndt would probably have a…
[1:32:19 – 1:32:21] Adam: I think Barrett would say they’re funny.
[1:32:21 – 1:32:23] Adam: Barrett would probably say that they’re funny.
[1:32:23 – 1:32:24] Erik: I think he’d say they’re hilarious.
[1:32:24 – 1:32:45] Erik: I would actually, there’s never been a book report up to this point that I would have been more interested in actually having the author around just to see, especially with his thoughts on how they, like they’re standing in the world and what his research meant in relationship to just generally like humans and
[1:32:46 – 1:32:49] Erik: And they’re like, does, is there something to be said?
[1:32:49 – 1:32:50] Erik: Is there a, is there a chart?
[1:32:50 – 1:33:00] Erik: Is there a graph that like the higher the intelligence quote unquote of an animal that goes up, the less it is actually providing
[1:33:03 – 1:33:08] Erik: It’s like you said, the beaver, it’s just doing its thing.
[1:33:08 – 1:33:09] Erik: The altruism of it.
[1:33:09 – 1:33:12] Erik: Mindlessly, like, I’m going to build this dam.
[1:33:12 – 1:33:13] Erik: I’m going to do this thing for my family.
[1:33:13 – 1:33:13] Erik: Right, right.
[1:33:13 – 1:33:14] Erik: He doesn’t know.
[1:33:14 – 1:33:16] Erik: He’s providing all these incredible waste.
[1:33:16 – 1:33:22] Adam: The smarter you get, the less value you serve to the entire ecosystem.
[1:33:23 – 1:33:23] Adam: Yeah.
[1:33:24 – 1:33:25] Adam: You’re a predator by nature.
[1:33:26 – 1:33:26] Adam: Yeah.
[1:33:26 – 1:33:28] Adam: Predators don’t serve the ecosystem.
[1:33:28 – 1:33:28] Adam: Yeah.
[1:33:30 – 1:33:34] Adam: Uh, in, in certain ways they do, but you know, really they don’t.
[1:33:34 – 1:33:41] Erik: But there is also a part of that thought that we do still exist in this world.
[1:33:42 – 1:33:51] Erik: And there’s a part of me that is always challenged to remember that I’m not a part of the ecosystem.
[1:33:51 – 1:33:52] Erik: Humans, we exist.
[1:33:53 – 1:33:56] Erik: Our buildings, our houses, our streets.
[1:33:57 – 1:33:58] Erik: These are just the things that we have…
[1:33:59 – 1:34:00] Erik: Now I sound like Joe Rogan.
[1:34:00 – 1:34:01] Erik: No.
[1:34:01 – 1:34:04] Erik: Yeah.
[1:34:04 – 1:34:09] Erik: We are all on this earth doing our versions of things.
[1:34:09 – 1:34:09] Erik: Yeah, sure.
[1:34:09 – 1:34:12] Erik: Bees make hives.
[1:34:12 – 1:34:14] Erik: We just happen to make roads and stuff.
[1:34:14 – 1:34:17] Erik: And ours are probably way more intrusive.
[1:34:17 – 1:34:18] Erik: And we don’t service.
[1:34:18 – 1:34:19] Erik: Highly destructive.
[1:34:19 – 1:34:48] Erik: yeah we don’t service anybody but ourselves and that i think is like again if you were to draw a line like the higher the intelligence again quote is intelligence even a good thing is intelligence a good thing then there’s the episode title yeah is intelligence a good thing and i don’t think it is maybe the ravens are on the end of that spectrum where like the the returns diminish am i saying that right yeah i think they’re uh their lives are equally sad as ours
[1:34:50 – 1:34:54] Adam: For every instance of happiness, there’s so many instances of heartache in a raven life.
[1:34:55 – 1:35:00] Adam: And that’s even more magnified the higher you get up in the intelligence of the…
[1:35:02 – 1:35:02] Adam: What have you?
[1:35:02 – 1:35:03] Adam: The biome.
[1:35:03 – 1:35:04] Adam: I don’t know.
[1:35:04 – 1:35:06] Erik: They’re at the equilibrium of intelligence.
[1:35:06 – 1:35:08] Adam: They’re not right where they should be.
[1:35:08 – 1:35:08] Adam: Right.
[1:35:08 – 1:35:09] Erik: That’s what I’m saying.
[1:35:09 – 1:35:11] Erik: We got out of our lane a little bit.
[1:35:11 – 1:35:12] Erik: They’re not taking.
[1:35:12 – 1:35:13] Adam: They don’t have podcasts.
[1:35:13 – 1:35:14] Adam: They’re taking.
[1:35:14 – 1:35:15] Erik: Party lights.
[1:35:15 – 1:35:21] Erik: They’re taking, but they’re not necessarily giving, but they’re not overtaking like we are.
[1:35:21 – 1:35:23] Adam: Yeah, they’re not overrunning the land.
[1:35:23 – 1:35:26] Erik: Yeah, it’s not like, we’ve got to get rid of these ravens.
[1:35:26 – 1:35:27] Adam: Yeah, the ravens are the problem.
[1:35:28 – 1:35:31] Adam: The glaciers are melting.
[1:35:31 – 1:35:32] Adam: These ravens are out of control.
[1:35:32 – 1:35:40] Erik: I mean, I guess if there is a perfect level of intelligence in animals, give it to the ravens.
[1:35:42 – 1:35:46] Erik: If you want to say intelligence can be a good thing, they might be peak intelligence.
[1:35:46 – 1:35:48] Adam: Yeah, that’s where you need to, that’s the sweet spot.
[1:35:48 – 1:35:57] Erik: Yeah, you don’t want to get too intelligent within like all of a sudden, a thousand years from now, it’s all AI and we’re living in a matrix world.
[1:35:57 – 1:36:04] Adam: Oh, we’re going to, you know, us, the Ravens, everybody else on this planet is going to get overrun by AI in 50 years.
[1:36:04 – 1:36:07] Adam: I mean, we’ll be lucky if we make it out of this podcast alive.
[1:36:07 – 1:36:18] Erik: Well, the slippery slope, we are, I mean, we just, it’s like the beginning of the, it’s the beginning of one of those really crazy water slides that you saw at like Action Park or whatever, where you’re like, this is crazy.
[1:36:19 – 1:36:22] Erik: But then all of a sudden it’s like, no, nobody should have ever made a slide this steep.
[1:36:23 – 1:36:25] Erik: And we’re already a quarter of the way down it.
[1:36:25 – 1:36:26] Erik: And there’s no turning back.
[1:36:26 – 1:36:27] Erik: It’s too late.
[1:36:27 – 1:36:28] Erik: There’s no turning back.
[1:36:28 – 1:36:35] Erik: It would take an electromagnetic shock to this planet for us to turn back from the inevitable trajectory that we are on right now.
[1:36:38 – 1:36:41] Erik: Which is going to inevitably lead us to…
[1:36:45 – 1:36:56] Adam: Much recent research in mammals has converged to indicate that perhaps the major driving force behind the evolution of increased brain size is social complexity.
[1:36:57 – 1:37:10] Adam: In turn, social complexity increases inordinately when individual recognition becomes possible and the animals track myriad specific others, both friend and foe.
[1:37:13 – 1:37:21] Adam: They recognize each other, form relationships and larger coalitions, both with other ravens and dangerous predators.
[1:37:22 – 1:37:28] Adam: A larger brain affords consciousness, which allows the ability to make choices before committing to action.
[1:37:29 – 1:37:37] Adam: I agree with most others that consciousness, at its simplest level, implies awareness through mental visualization.
[1:37:40 – 1:37:41] Adam: I got one more for you, Eric.
[1:37:42 – 1:37:43] Adam: This is the last paragraph of the show.
[1:37:44 – 1:37:44] Erik: Wow.
[1:37:45 – 1:37:52] Erik: I didn’t realize that we were like precursing that reading from Herbst.
[1:37:52 – 1:37:52] Erik: Berndt?
[1:37:53 – 1:37:53] Erik: Berndt.
[1:37:53 – 1:37:53] Erik: Herbst.
[1:37:53 – 1:37:54] Erik: Herbst.
[1:37:54 – 1:37:54] Erik: Herbst.
[1:37:56 – 1:38:01] Adam: The Athabascans have a myth about why the raven is black and the world imperfect.
[1:38:01 – 1:38:08] Adam: They say that in time before man, when the world was young, raven was white as snow.
[1:38:08 – 1:38:14] Adam: He was the creator of mountains and a lover of life, whose soul was filled with light and beauty.
[1:38:15 – 1:38:20] Adam: All of this goodness made his twin brother jealous, and he killed his brother with an axe.
[1:38:21 – 1:38:25] Adam: Ever since then, the world has been imperfect and the raven black.
[1:39:18 – 1:39:18] Adam: Bye.