Episode Transcript
[0:00:01 – 0:00:24] Erik: toot toot that’s the sound a train makes as it’s coming into this station all aboard tumble home express episode uh we don’t keep track of them my name is eric and i am as always joined by my good friend adam hello adam
[0:00:25 – 0:00:25] Sarah: Oh, hello.
[0:00:28 – 0:00:28] Sarah: Yes.
[0:00:28 – 0:00:29] Sarah: Yes.
[0:00:29 – 0:00:29] Sarah: Hello.
[0:00:29 – 0:00:31] Erik: Nailing it.
[0:00:31 – 0:00:31] Erik: Nailing it.
[0:00:32 – 0:00:32] Sarah: Yes, this is Adam.
[0:00:34 – 0:00:35] Erik: Yes, this is Adam.
[0:00:35 – 0:00:36] Sarah: Welcome.
[0:00:37 – 0:01:04] Erik: um joined actually by the geologist wife today adam hello surprise surprise you can all tune out if you are only here for the back and forth um man banter but we’re going to be talking kawishui lake entry point specifically this week on the choo-choo series i feel um very honored to be here you should
[0:01:05 – 0:01:08] Sarah: I am standing in today.
[0:01:10 – 0:01:11] Erik: Adam has disappeared.
[0:01:11 – 0:01:12] Erik: Not 100% sure where he is.
[0:01:13 – 0:01:14] Sarah: We have no idea where he is.
[0:01:14 – 0:01:14] Erik: No.
[0:01:16 – 0:01:16] Sarah: He’s probably fine.
[0:01:17 – 0:01:18] Erik: Probably.
[0:01:18 – 0:01:21] Erik: Still don’t know where he is, but we’re sure he’s fine.
[0:01:21 – 0:01:30] Erik: Yeah, so on with the continuation of the soft underbelly of this section of the Boundary Waters.
[0:01:30 – 0:01:32] Erik: Remote access.
[0:01:33 – 0:01:39] Erik: Yet again, as we were talking last week about Baker…
[0:01:41 – 0:01:49] Erik: It’s, I would say it’s up there with, it’s a trust fund entry point, meaning it’s just gifted to you.
[0:01:49 – 0:01:52] Erik: You put your canoe on the water, you’re in the boundary waters.
[0:01:53 – 0:01:53] Sarah: You’re in.
[0:01:54 – 0:01:55] Erik: No portages.
[0:01:56 – 0:01:56] Sarah: It’s easy.
[0:01:57 – 0:01:57] Erik: It’s easy.
[0:01:58 – 0:01:58] Erik: No motorboats.
[0:01:59 – 0:02:02] Sarah: The drive is the hardest part about getting to Kwee Shwee.
[0:02:02 – 0:02:03] Erik: By far, yes.
[0:02:04 – 0:02:11] Erik: It is, I think, one of the farthest entry points from a ranger station.
[0:02:12 – 0:02:18] Erik: It’s 33 miles to Toftee from Kawishawi Lake Public Access itself.
[0:02:19 – 0:02:25] Erik: This is entry point number 37, but the U.S. Forest Service does not seem to care anymore about those numbers.
[0:02:26 – 0:02:28] Erik: So I’m not sure why I keep using them.
[0:02:29 – 0:02:30] Sarah: That’s what it says on the map.
[0:02:30 – 0:02:39] Erik: It says it on all the maps still, but you will not find any numbers associated with entry points on the recreation.gov website.
[0:02:40 – 0:02:46] Sarah: Do you think it’s maybe closer to the Ely ranger station than it is the Toftee ranger station?
[0:02:46 – 0:02:46] Erik: Definitely not.
[0:02:47 – 0:02:48] Erik: But it might be closer to Isabella.
[0:02:48 – 0:02:48] Sarah: Because there’s that sign.
[0:02:49 – 0:02:49] Sarah: Oh, yeah.
[0:02:49 – 0:02:51] Sarah: That sign says like 22 to Isabella.
[0:02:52 – 0:02:55] Erik: I don’t think that there really is a ranger station in Isabella.
[0:02:55 – 0:02:55] Erik: No.
[0:02:56 – 0:02:56] Erik: Ely, though.
[0:02:56 – 0:02:57] Erik: Yeah, for sure.
[0:02:57 – 0:02:58] Erik: Like downtown Ely.
[0:02:58 – 0:02:58] Erik: Yeah.
[0:02:58 – 0:03:01] Erik: No, the one in Ely is up the Fernberg a little bit out of town.
[0:03:02 – 0:03:14] Erik: But there’s that like workstation in Isabella where there’s been like a rundown like Subaru, like four by four, some kind of a vehicle like in the parking lot for almost a decade now.
[0:03:14 – 0:03:15] Sarah: You sure that’s not just Paige’s car?
[0:03:15 – 0:03:15] Sarah: I don’t know.
[0:03:16 – 0:03:34] Erik: don’t know what they do at the workstation but anyway you know the closest ranger station is the tofty ranger station so if you’re coming up from the south which i would believe the vast majority of people are that is your closest place to procure a physical permit and
[0:03:35 – 0:03:59] Erik: on any other year besides a pandemic year which again uh last year the ranger stations were closed and it sounds like they will be again uh this 2021 season so then you might want to plan on like a Duluth pack in Duluth pickup for a permit or you know Sawbill is relatively close but um definitely out of the way
[0:03:59 – 0:04:00] Erik: Yeah, it’s out of the way.
[0:04:00 – 0:04:06] Erik: You’d have to bypass and go farther past, you know, where your turn is to get there.
[0:04:06 – 0:04:09] Erik: Or, you know, you can just issue it at home at least this next year.
[0:04:12 – 0:04:16] Erik: How many permits per day do you think Cushwee Lake offers?
[0:04:16 – 0:04:17] Sarah: Oh, well.
[0:04:17 – 0:04:21] Erik: Just looking at the map, campsites that are available, where it is.
[0:04:23 – 0:04:25] Sarah: Like three.
[0:04:25 – 0:04:25] Sarah: Three.
[0:04:25 – 0:04:29] Erik: That’s kind of what I would originally think just by looking at it.
[0:04:29 – 0:04:34] Erik: And I was shocked and disturbed.
[0:04:34 – 0:04:34] Sarah: Appalled.
[0:04:35 – 0:04:35] Erik: Not appalled.
[0:04:37 – 0:04:37] Sarah: Aghast.
[0:04:37 – 0:04:38] Erik: Aghast.
[0:04:39 – 0:04:45] Erik: To find out that there are nine permits available per day on Koishui Lake.
[0:04:46 – 0:04:47] Sarah: Oh my God.
[0:04:48 – 0:04:48] Sarah: What?
[0:04:48 – 0:04:53] Erik: So it’s no wonder we got bamboozled last year when we tried going in at five in the afternoon.
[0:04:53 – 0:05:16] Sarah: makes these rules that seems absurd that’s insane that’s insane for the size first of all the size lake it is has seven campsites on it seven campsites and it’s like kind of its own thing like unless you’re starting a trip there and planning on going in a ways
[0:05:17 – 0:05:45] Erik: Well, and I think a lot of people do, but it’s one of the things that I would suggest to keep in mind as you’re planning a Kawishui Lake entry permit is either get up late and take one of the camp, because there is a six or seven site Superior National Forest campground right at the landing there as well.
[0:05:47 – 0:05:51] Erik: set up there the night before your entry permit and then push in from there.
[0:05:52 – 0:05:53] Sarah: That would be the way to do it.
[0:05:54 – 0:05:55] Erik: Yeah.
[0:05:55 – 0:05:58] Sarah: Unless you like somehow just have an early start.
[0:05:59 – 0:06:00] Erik: Oh, I think you could get in early.
[0:06:00 – 0:06:01] Erik: Yeah, get in early.
[0:06:02 – 0:06:11] Erik: But don’t plan on being able to show up at 5 o’clock in the middle of the summer and just go out and get a quick campsite because… Do not recommend.
[0:06:11 – 0:06:13] Erik: Highly, highly unlikely that you will.
[0:06:15 – 0:06:19] Erik: It seems like a nice lake to… Well, I know it’s a nice lake.
[0:06:19 – 0:06:20] Erik: It’s a very pretty lake.
[0:06:20 – 0:06:21] Erik: And…
[0:06:22 – 0:06:28] Erik: You know, we don’t have a ton of experience with it, but it’s been in multiple times that we’ve been through there.
[0:06:28 – 0:06:30] Erik: And it’s like, oh, all these sites are taken.
[0:06:31 – 0:06:36] Erik: And one site was like basically we abandoned a trip because we paddled out.
[0:06:37 – 0:06:37] Erik: All the sites were taken.
[0:06:38 – 0:06:42] Erik: And then we decided to just get a site at the campground.
[0:06:42 – 0:06:48] Erik: And as soon as we got set up, a bunch of Yugg Yugg boys from the Dakotas pulled up and started burning stuff.
[0:06:49 – 0:07:07] Sarah: heaters and kids were screaming and it kind of turned into a whole thing it was awful so we packed up and left yeah we were like taking axel out for the first time we were like oh let’s just go to kawishui and just like go out for a night and just see how axel does in the canoe
[0:07:08 – 0:07:12] Erik: That was the first real, because that was like relatively early in the paddling season in 2020.
[0:07:13 – 0:07:19] Erik: The first like real sense of, oh, there’s a lot of people out here.
[0:07:19 – 0:07:20] Erik: There’s going to be a lot of people.
[0:07:20 – 0:07:23] Erik: The only place that you can go during the COVID.
[0:07:24 – 0:07:25] Sarah: And we like got a late start too.
[0:07:25 – 0:07:27] Sarah: I don’t know if I worked that day or you worked.
[0:07:28 – 0:07:31] Erik: Well, yeah, it was basically just like a, it was going to be a weekend trip.
[0:07:32 – 0:07:34] Sarah: Yeah, we like went out in the afternoon.
[0:07:34 – 0:07:44] Sarah: It takes an hour and a half to get there from our house and got out there and we’re like, oh, it’s so lovely.
[0:07:44 – 0:07:45] Sarah: It was a lovely day.
[0:07:45 – 0:07:46] Erik: It was very nice.
[0:07:46 – 0:07:47] Sarah: It was very nice.
[0:07:47 – 0:07:49] Sarah: We got a tour of the lake at least.
[0:07:49 – 0:07:50] Erik: We toured the lake.
[0:07:50 – 0:07:59] Erik: In full, the other issue is, yeah, you can say what you will about the number of campsites and the number of permits per day and be like, oh, well, you should just press down to Square.
[0:08:01 – 0:08:08] Erik: But, you know, getting in that late, you’ve got a bit of a river paddle to get off of Kawishawi and then into Square where there are only two more sites.
[0:08:09 – 0:08:19] Erik: But the biggest factor with that these days is that basically anything north of Kawishawi until you get up to Pawley,
[0:08:20 – 0:08:23] Erik: was affected by the Pagami Creek wildfire.
[0:08:24 – 0:08:26] Erik: It’s burnt.
[0:08:26 – 0:08:27] Erik: Yeah, it’s a bit burnt.
[0:08:28 – 0:08:40] Erik: And regardless of what your personal opinion on camping in wildfire areas or recently burned areas, maybe that’s something you really like.
[0:08:41 – 0:08:44] Erik: But I know the vast majority of people that I work with
[0:08:45 – 0:08:47] Erik: at Clearwater, try to avoid those areas.
[0:08:48 – 0:08:58] Erik: So it compounds the campsites that are directly adjacent to burned areas because people will be like, well, we’ll just camp on the edge of it and then paddle through those areas.
[0:08:58 – 0:09:07] Erik: So again, maybe a bit of an adjustment that needs to be made by the Forest Service.
[0:09:07 – 0:09:12] Sarah: Yeah, I am very surprised by the nine permits.
[0:09:13 – 0:09:38] Sarah: nine permits a day it’s insane it’s crazy yeah for how small of a lake it is and like there’s like yeah there’s only square and then you push you have to push on till what phoebe is always busy kawasachong kawasachong is again and then poly is busy too although it has a lot of campsites but like not phoebe i meant poly phoebe’s actually i think you did say poly oh well
[0:09:38 – 0:09:40] Erik: Polly is a very busy lake.
[0:09:41 – 0:09:48] Erik: Um, but anyway, so we’ll just start like, so yeah, you’re going to, you just want to base camp on Kawishawi.
[0:09:48 – 0:09:49] Erik: We’ve set our piece on that.
[0:09:49 – 0:10:02] Erik: Like beware to a certain extent, be prepared, um, to either take a sub standard campsite or backtrack to the campground and then smell cigs all night.
[0:10:03 – 0:10:06] Sarah: Um, that I, yeah, that was a bad situation.
[0:10:07 – 0:10:17] Erik: But I mean, once you get north of Kawashima, yeah, it does definitely like it disperses into essentially the heart of the park and it allows you a lot of different options.
[0:10:17 – 0:10:25] Erik: You know, getting through square up into Kawashima, those are some like very shallow late season.
[0:10:25 – 0:10:27] Erik: They get real weeded out.
[0:10:28 – 0:10:48] Erik: And some of those river paddles through there between Kawashishang Square, Kawashishang, until you get to Apali, is kind of, I would say, you know, bordering on the edge of a little swampier, a little lower water levels.
[0:10:49 – 0:10:56] Erik: You know, and coming from our perspectives over on the east side, which is like deep, big lakes…
[0:10:57 – 0:11:08] Erik: season seasonality doesn’t really affect the trip where we’re from you have to keep that in mind a little bit more paddling through here because it can get a bit choked and a bit uh a bit shallow
[0:11:08 – 0:11:31] Sarah: and especially this spring heading into the uh liquid water open water paddling season like it has been so dry um like all summer last summer was super super dry fall was dry and now winter we’ve been down like a good 30 inches of snow so you know
[0:11:33 – 0:11:33] Erik: Yeah.
[0:11:33 – 0:11:35] Sarah: Take that into account, too.
[0:11:35 – 0:11:36] Erik: Yeah.
[0:11:36 – 0:11:39] Erik: The water’s almost always come up quickly right away after ice out.
[0:11:39 – 0:11:45] Erik: But if there’s not that, you know, backup of the big snow melt, it’ll dry out fast.
[0:11:45 – 0:11:49] Sarah: Which, you know, there could be like this area up here.
[0:11:50 – 0:11:57] Sarah: Once you get kind of up over the ridge, driving up to Kawishui, they could have more snow up there.
[0:11:59 – 0:11:59] Sarah: Yeah.
[0:11:59 – 0:12:01] Erik: Generally, though, the Bajorata’s not got much snow.
[0:12:01 – 0:12:01] Erik: Average.
[0:12:02 – 0:12:27] Erik: yeah but it’s probably gonna be a pretty dry well we try not to be too topical on the express episodes but it is thing to keep in mind if you are listening to this going into the 2021 season yeah um biggest challenge with kawishui is the uh again the remoteness and your arrangements with other vehicles if you want to put together a large-scale trip um you’d have to either work with another and not an
[0:12:28 – 0:12:45] Erik: outfitter or some kind of a shuttle service provider or fully plan on an out and back trip with the stick of the lollipop route being a relatively large one on this one.
[0:12:45 – 0:12:57] Erik: You really can’t fan out and put together a loop until you get all the way up to Coma or even, yeah, basically you have to get all the way up to Malberg to put together some kind of a
[0:12:59 – 0:13:06] Erik: actual lollipop on the stick without involving some kind of a shuttle or a vehicle drop.
[0:13:06 – 0:13:09] Erik: I mean, the options are out there.
[0:13:10 – 0:13:14] Erik: You could go down the Phoebe River, down to Phoebe and DeGrace, over to Sawbill.
[0:13:14 – 0:13:18] Erik: That’s a fun route, but then, you know, again, you’re looking at a bit of a shuttle.
[0:13:19 – 0:13:27] Erik: I don’t know what exactly Sawbill Outfitters offers in terms of shuttling, but it would be required.
[0:13:27 – 0:13:28] Erik: So,
[0:13:29 – 0:13:38] Erik: Routing, it’s not the greatest entry point to put together a big loop without paddling the same waters that you’ve paddled.
[0:13:39 – 0:13:43] Erik: More of an out and back style trip.
[0:13:44 – 0:13:45] Sarah: It’s like a diving board.
[0:13:46 – 0:13:47] Erik: How is it like a diving board?
[0:13:49 – 0:13:54] Sarah: Because you dive in and then you swim a lap and you come back.
[0:13:55 – 0:14:04] Sarah: Or it’s like the kickstands that the professional swimmers kick off of when they’re starting their 800 meter swim.
[0:14:05 – 0:14:09] Sarah: It’s like you’re going to go out and you’re going to swim a bunch and then you’re going to come back to the same spot.
[0:14:10 – 0:14:10] Erik: Right.
[0:14:10 – 0:14:10] Erik: Sure.
[0:14:10 – 0:14:15] Erik: And that’s fine because, you know, as a swimmer, you probably don’t really care about what you’re seeing.
[0:14:15 – 0:14:17] Erik: You’re just putting your head down and you’re swimming.
[0:14:17 – 0:14:27] Erik: But as a, uh, Bon Jovi’s entry point, some people might not like that backtrack over the course of a four or five day trip, you know, two days out just to backtrack.
[0:14:27 – 0:14:34] Erik: Um, it seems like most people are trying to cover more ground and maybe color in more of the map.
[0:14:35 – 0:14:35] Erik: Um,
[0:14:36 – 0:14:41] Erik: But this is a really good entry point to go out, you know, get out to Polly and set up for a weekend.
[0:14:42 – 0:14:46] Erik: If you’ve listened to this show long enough, you’ve probably heard it multiple occasions.
[0:14:47 – 0:14:53] Erik: The prevalence of bears on Polly seems like a yearly occurrence.
[0:14:55 – 0:14:55] Erik: And
[0:14:56 – 0:15:09] Erik: The vast majority of Pali, basically the square and Kawasasang were the two lakes that’s where the Pagami Creek fire ended.
[0:15:10 – 0:15:12] Erik: So they’re going to be pretty well affected.
[0:15:12 – 0:15:17] Erik: But if you get up onto Pali, then you’ll be back out of the fire scar, as it were.
[0:15:19 – 0:15:21] Erik: And you’re in really good fishing lakes too.
[0:15:21 – 0:15:25] Erik: So there’s nothing wrong with an out and back, you know, base camp on Pauley.
[0:15:26 – 0:15:33] Erik: Take a day trip up to Coma where the bream are just, they flock like the salmon of Capistrano up there.
[0:15:33 – 0:15:36] Sarah: Bream weaver.
[0:15:36 – 0:15:38] Erik: And Polly’s got really good walleye fishing.
[0:15:39 – 0:15:50] Erik: There’s good walleye fishing through the beginning, through Kawishawi Square and Kawasachang, but they get really shallow after, you know, mid-summer, which makes…
[0:15:52 – 0:15:57] Erik: the walleye fishing a little bit harder because it gets so warm, it gets so weedy, you just end up snagging weeds.
[0:15:58 – 0:15:59] Sarah: Going to catch a lot of weeds.
[0:15:59 – 0:16:00] Erik: Going to catch a lot of weeds.
[0:16:00 – 0:16:06] Erik: You got to get that moss boss out for the top water action, but then you’re not really looking at too many walleye attacks.
[0:16:07 – 0:16:08] Sarah: Yeah.
[0:16:08 – 0:16:10] Sarah: I mean, if I were like…
[0:16:12 – 0:16:34] Sarah: a person that only came up to the Boundary Waters every so often, and the woods is going to be beautiful no matter what I’m looking at, and it’s going to be lovely, and I just want to get out into the wilderness, Kawishawi would be a good spot.
[0:16:34 – 0:16:41] Sarah: There’s so much up there out of Pali that if you get in there,
[0:16:42 – 0:16:53] Sarah: I feel like an out and back doesn’t really matter to some people like it does to some other people.
[0:16:54 – 0:16:58] Erik: Well, yeah, it’s always subjective when it comes to the style of a trip you’re looking to put together.
[0:16:58 – 0:16:58] Erik: Yeah.
[0:17:00 – 0:17:17] Erik: You know, if it was up to me and if it was a weekend trip and we have experience in this entry point as well, which would be just down the road from Koishui at 36 Hog Creek, there’s only five permits a day that put in there and a large number of very nice campsites.
[0:17:18 – 0:17:23] Erik: That would be, you know, if it is a… Let’s just go kind of get away from it all.
[0:17:23 – 0:17:25] Erik: I’m not looking to put miles on.
[0:17:26 – 0:17:26] Erik: Let’s just get out.
[0:17:26 – 0:17:37] Erik: And there are zero portages if you’re willing to, like, just kind of step out of the water right away on the Hog Creek entry point to get down the Hog Creek into Parent Lake where things open up.
[0:17:38 – 0:17:44] Erik: Yeah, you don’t have really many options off of there besides literally paddling the Parent River, which is…
[0:17:46 – 0:18:12] Erik: that’s a bit of a doozy but um but there’s like 20 sites on parent yeah right that’s what i mean if you’re just going out to to camp for the weekend and you’re not looking to put down a big route um hug creek and parent lake would be my preferred option parent is a beauty real beauty it’s a real beaut no pretty no effects from the pagami creek fire down on parent we’ve done an episode on parent us too
[0:18:12 – 0:18:15] Erik: Yeah, that’s probably the last time you’ve been fully on the show.
[0:18:15 – 0:18:16] Erik: In the field.
[0:18:16 – 0:18:22] Erik: In the field, getting nude spied by some Forest Service Rangers.
[0:18:23 – 0:18:24] Sarah: Yes, that was funny.
[0:18:25 – 0:18:26] Sarah: Some good rocks on Parent Lake too.
[0:18:27 – 0:18:30] Erik: Some nice big like erratics right in the water.
[0:18:30 – 0:18:32] Erik: And it’s a really good fishing lake as well.
[0:18:33 – 0:18:40] Erik: So basically, Kawishawi, I would think if you’re shoulder season or getting in early,
[0:18:42 – 0:18:42] Erik: Go for it.
[0:18:43 – 0:19:00] Erik: But be cautious of the mid-season peak summer paddling activity in the Northwoods showing up late thinking you’re just going to go out and find a site because of the access, because of the number of permits that can go in on any given day.
[0:19:01 – 0:19:21] Erik: And because of the fires just to the north that keep people from making that initial push, which they may eventually, but a lot of people are putting in on Kawishui just to camp on it and or setting up to exit the next day.
[0:19:21 – 0:19:22] Erik: Yeah.
[0:19:23 – 0:19:24] Erik: It’s a fun one, though.
[0:19:24 – 0:19:29] Erik: I mean, anytime you just get to drop a canoe in the lake and be in the boundary waters, that’s always fun.
[0:19:29 – 0:19:31] Erik: Yeah, it’s pretty great.
[0:19:31 – 0:19:35] Erik: Say what you will about having to work for it via a portage.
[0:19:35 – 0:19:43] Erik: But yeah, I think the pro tip at this point is, yeah, be cautious of a late start.
[0:19:45 – 0:19:49] Erik: But if you can get out on Kawishui and you find some open sites, there’s
[0:19:49 – 0:20:01] Erik: Or if you’re looking for like a truly intro trip, the beach campsite just to the east of the entry point, which you can basically still see the landing.
[0:20:02 – 0:20:06] Erik: That’s a really nice spot for, you know, hey, we got some kids.
[0:20:06 – 0:20:08] Erik: We want to be available to bounce.
[0:20:09 – 0:20:11] Erik: If something changes, something happens, the kids aren’t enjoying it.
[0:20:12 – 0:20:13] Sarah: Yeah, that would be great.
[0:20:13 – 0:20:14] Erik: That’s a really nice spot.
[0:20:14 – 0:20:14] Erik: Yeah.
[0:20:16 – 0:20:24] Erik: And then the campground is just immediately right there as well, which like we had, I would say probably a pretty unique experience in the way that we did.
[0:20:24 – 0:20:32] Erik: I imagine it’s mostly a quiet campground there at the waters, the shoreline of Kawishui and some nice sites in that campground as well.
[0:20:32 – 0:20:33] Erik: Yeah.
[0:20:33 – 0:20:35] Sarah: There’s like six or seven spots there.
[0:20:36 – 0:20:36] Erik: Yeah.
[0:20:36 – 0:20:37] Sarah: Yeah.
[0:20:38 – 0:20:41] Erik: Yeah, so that’s Kawish-a-wee 37.
[0:20:41 – 0:20:41] Erik: Kawish-a-wee.
[0:20:42 – 0:20:42] Sarah: Kawish-a-way.
[0:20:42 – 0:20:43] Erik: Kawish-a-way.
[0:20:44 – 0:20:54] Erik: And again, we have gone over 20 minutes, which the benchmark for Express episodes has been blown out of the water for the second week in a row.
[0:20:54 – 0:20:55] Sarah: It’s because I’m new here.
[0:20:56 – 0:20:57] Erik: Yeah, you are new here.
[0:20:57 – 0:20:58] Sarah: Forgive me.
[0:20:58 – 0:21:00] Sarah: Choo-choo.
[0:21:01 – 0:21:01] Sarah: Choo-choo.
[0:21:02 – 0:21:03] Erik: Bow-bow.
