It’s BW permit season! We’re getting hot and bothered about permit quota reductions. We also explore the noticeable differences between the park as one travels from west to east. Happy permitting! It is what it is.
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The Answering Machine: (218) 481-0649
Episode Transcript
[0:00:29 – 0:00:35] Adam: Welcome to the Windy Boys, Windy Boys podcast.
[0:00:37 – 0:00:41] Adam: Coming to you live from Studio K2 with the Windy View.
[0:00:41 – 0:00:41] Adam: My name is Adam.
[0:00:41 – 0:00:43] Adam: Join me here in the studio.
[0:00:44 – 0:00:44] Adam: My best man, Eric.
[0:00:44 – 0:00:45] Adam: Hello, Eric.
[0:00:46 – 0:00:46] Adam: Hello.
[0:00:47 – 0:00:52] Adam: Welcome to Tumble Home, a proud independent windcast.
[0:00:53 – 0:00:54] Adam: We’re getting lashed.
[0:00:55 – 0:00:55] Adam: Slashed.
[0:00:55 – 0:00:56] Adam: I hope the roof stays on.
[0:00:57 – 0:00:57] Adam: God.
[0:00:57 – 0:01:00] Adam: This roof is properly fixed and shingled.
[0:01:02 – 0:01:09] Adam: Come Home is, of course, brought to you by our proud patrons, our friends on the internet.
[0:01:09 – 0:01:09] Adam: Thank you.
[0:01:10 – 0:01:12] Adam: The servers, they’re a-humming.
[0:01:13 – 0:01:13] Erik: Can you hear them?
[0:01:14 – 0:01:15] Adam: They’re almost as loud as the wind.
[0:01:16 – 0:01:17] Erik: They are a-humming.
[0:01:17 – 0:01:17] Erik: Yeah.
[0:01:17 – 0:01:20] Erik: We’ve got a double feature coming out this weekend.
[0:01:20 – 0:01:21] Erik: We’ve got Grizzly.
[0:01:23 – 0:01:25] Erik: Oh, yeah.
[0:01:25 – 0:01:26] Adam: 1976?
[0:01:26 – 0:01:27] Adam: 76, sounds right.
[0:01:27 – 0:01:28] Erik: Yeah, Grizzly.
[0:01:28 – 0:01:32] Erik: That’s one off the board, getting erased.
[0:01:32 – 0:01:33] Erik: In proper fashion.
[0:01:34 – 0:01:35] Erik: In proper fashion.
[0:01:36 – 0:01:38] Erik: And then Cliffhanger.
[0:01:40 – 0:01:40] Erik: Why?
[0:01:40 – 0:01:41] Erik: I don’t know.
[0:01:41 – 0:01:44] Adam: I didn’t have the Cliffhanger soundtrack pulled up.
[0:01:44 – 0:01:46] Adam: Forgot we were going to talk about this.
[0:01:46 – 0:01:47] Erik: Well, that’s about it.
[0:01:48 – 0:01:51] Adam: Well, I really enjoyed the theme to the bats.
[0:01:51 – 0:01:52] Adam: Bat theme?
[0:01:52 – 0:01:53] Adam: Bat cave theme.
[0:01:54 – 0:01:55] Adam: Can we get that pulled up at least?
[0:01:55 – 0:01:59] Erik: I’m sure we can quick find bat theme, bat cave theme.
[0:01:59 – 0:02:04] Adam: It’s track 48 out of 1,000 on the cliffhanger.
[0:02:04 – 0:02:09] Adam: The longest movie soundtrack ever released on Spotify ever.
[0:02:09 – 0:02:30] Erik: hours and 27 minutes longer than the movie somehow is actually longer than i don’t understand how that works is it bats bats just call it yeah it’s just bats bats yeah needed this theme and this scene in the movie
[0:02:32 – 0:02:33] Erik: Trevor Jones.
[0:02:34 – 0:02:41] Adam: Trevor Jones knocked it out of the GD Cave with this beautiful orchestration.
[0:02:41 – 0:02:43] Erik: Knocked it out of the National Park.
[0:02:44 – 0:02:46] Adam: Or State Park National, whatever they were in.
[0:02:47 – 0:02:53] Adam: Tonight’s Ronald Shara Outdoor Calendar Fact of the Day.
[0:02:54 – 0:02:55] Adam: January 21st, 2022.
[0:02:57 – 0:02:59] Adam: It is Brother Andrew’s birthday.
[0:02:59 – 0:03:00] Adam: Happy birthday, brother.
[0:03:00 – 0:03:01] Adam: Are you out there, brother?
[0:03:01 – 0:03:02] Adam: Are you listening?
[0:03:02 – 0:03:03] Erik: H-B-D-B-A.
[0:03:05 – 0:03:10] Adam: Also, the real fact of the day from Ronald, plan your summer houseboat trip.
[0:03:11 – 0:03:14] Adam: Sunset’s at 5.05 p.m. We’re going towards the daylight, Eric.
[0:03:14 – 0:03:17] Adam: We’re going towards the daylight in our houseboat with a water slide.
[0:03:18 – 0:03:19] Adam: We’re listening to bats.
[0:03:19 – 0:03:21] Erik: You really do like bats, huh?
[0:03:21 – 0:03:24] Adam: This is my favorite song on the whole album, for sure.
[0:03:24 – 0:03:27] Erik: Jessica, Jesse’s Close Call.
[0:03:27 – 0:03:28] Adam: That’s an S track.
[0:03:30 – 0:03:32] Erik: What about Frank’s Demise?
[0:03:32 – 0:03:33] Adam: Frank’s Demise is pretty good.
[0:03:34 – 0:03:35] Adam: It’s a little tense for my liking.
[0:03:36 – 0:03:41] Erik: There’s a 9 minute and 37 second song called Icy Stream.
[0:03:41 – 0:03:42] Erik: Jesse’s release.
[0:03:42 – 0:03:43] Erik: Hooked copter.
[0:03:44 – 0:03:45] Erik: Helicopter flight.
[0:03:45 – 0:03:47] Adam: Way too many helicopter tracks.
[0:03:47 – 0:03:48] Adam: That’s my main complaint.
[0:03:50 – 0:03:51] Adam: But yeah, check it out.
[0:03:51 – 0:03:53] Adam: If you’re on the Patreon, go ahead.
[0:03:54 – 0:03:55] Adam: I highly recommend Cliffhanger.
[0:03:55 – 0:03:59] Adam: I don’t really recommend Grizzly that much.
[0:04:00 – 0:04:01] Erik: Don’t spoil it.
[0:04:01 – 0:04:05] Adam: You know, it might be fun, depending on the mood of the night.
[0:04:06 – 0:04:07] Erik: The mood of the night.
[0:04:07 – 0:04:10] Erik: We had to do Cliffhanger to make up for Grizzly.
[0:04:10 – 0:04:11] Erik: Let’s just say that.
[0:04:11 – 0:04:12] Adam: I don’t know about that.
[0:04:12 – 0:04:14] Adam: I don’t know about that.
[0:04:16 – 0:04:18] Adam: I got a health update.
[0:04:18 – 0:04:19] Adam: No worms.
[0:04:20 – 0:04:21] Erik: No worms.
[0:04:21 – 0:04:22] Adam: Not yet.
[0:04:22 – 0:04:25] Adam: I did a worm scan before tonight’s episode, before I came over.
[0:04:26 – 0:04:27] Adam: Took the worm test.
[0:04:27 – 0:04:29] Erik: You can get those online for free now.
[0:04:29 – 0:04:33] Adam: Yeah, I went down and I picked up a whole armful of them from the pharmacy.
[0:04:33 – 0:04:34] Adam: Worm test.
[0:04:34 – 0:04:35] Adam: I do one every morning now.
[0:04:36 – 0:04:36] Adam: Still negative.
[0:04:37 – 0:04:38] Adam: It looks like a pregnancy test.
[0:04:39 – 0:04:42] Adam: And if you have two lines, that’s actually a good thing.
[0:04:43 – 0:04:46] Adam: In both the pregnancy test and in a worm test, it turns out.
[0:04:46 – 0:04:47] Erik: Two squiggly lines?
[0:04:47 – 0:04:47] Adam: Yeah.
[0:04:48 – 0:04:49] Adam: You got worms.
[0:04:49 – 0:04:49] Adam: No.
[0:04:50 – 0:04:54] Adam: Actually, if you have the worms, it’s like five squiggly lines, but they’re all connected.
[0:04:55 – 0:04:55] Erik: And it starts hissing.
[0:04:56 – 0:04:58] Adam: And that’s not a good sign.
[0:04:59 – 0:04:59] Adam: Extra wormy.
[0:04:59 – 0:05:00] Adam: But so far, so good.
[0:05:00 – 0:05:03] Adam: No worms here in Studio K2.
[0:05:03 – 0:05:04] Erik: No worms from the ceviche.
[0:05:04 – 0:05:07] Erik: It probably could have gone just a little bit longer, but…
[0:05:07 – 0:05:08] Adam: They were mostly.
[0:05:08 – 0:05:10] Erik: Could have gone overnight on them.
[0:05:10 – 0:05:11] Erik: Probably overnight.
[0:05:11 – 0:05:14] Adam: That would have required more time than we had for the project, though.
[0:05:14 – 0:05:19] Adam: So thank you to anybody out there who enjoyed or listened to those.
[0:05:19 – 0:05:23] Adam: Go ahead and check out Matthew Baxley’s wonderful video clip with a
[0:05:23 – 0:05:45] Adam: full-on party horn yeah a real party horn real party horn along with the regular party horn and uh some fun editing i enjoyed the video quite well i i like both our podcast version of it and the podcast version of the sushi on duncan but i think the video it’s a seven minute video there thereabouts
[0:05:45 – 0:05:49] Adam: I think that captured the entire thing just perfectly, honestly.
[0:05:49 – 0:05:51] Adam: So you can skip both podcasts, honestly, and just watch the video.
[0:05:51 – 0:05:52] Adam: There you go.
[0:05:52 – 0:05:53] Erik: You only have seven minutes?
[0:05:54 – 0:05:55] Adam: Yeah, if you only got seven, go for that.
[0:05:55 – 0:05:59] Adam: If you got two hours, then watch the video and listen to both podcasts.
[0:05:59 – 0:05:59] Adam: Do it all.
[0:06:00 – 0:06:00] Adam: They’re both fun.
[0:06:00 – 0:06:01] Erik: Yeah.
[0:06:01 – 0:06:02] Adam: So that was a lot of fun.
[0:06:03 – 0:06:06] Adam: A lot of positive feedback in the community from that one.
[0:06:06 – 0:06:06] Adam: Thank you.
[0:06:07 – 0:06:07] Erik: Yeah.
[0:06:07 – 0:06:08] Adam: Thank you to everybody that listened.
[0:06:08 – 0:06:09] Adam: We had a lot of fun with that.
[0:06:09 – 0:06:10] Adam: And like I said, no worms.
[0:06:11 – 0:06:11] Adam: No worms.
[0:06:11 – 0:06:12] Adam: So safe to do it.
[0:06:12 – 0:06:14] Adam: I guess go ahead and start dunking stuff into citrus.
[0:06:14 – 0:06:15] Erik: Yeah, stay tuned.
[0:06:16 – 0:06:20] Erik: Another four years from now, we will get back together with the WTIP boys.
[0:06:20 – 0:06:23] Adam: But until then… Every four years, like the way the Olympics used to be.
[0:06:24 – 0:06:26] Erik: Yeah, the way the Olympics used to be.
[0:06:26 – 0:06:30] Adam: Every four years, we gather on Duncan and tempt the worms.
[0:06:31 – 0:06:33] Erik: Tempt the worms, yes.
[0:06:33 – 0:06:35] Adam: That’s what the park is all really about.
[0:06:35 – 0:06:43] Erik: Yeah, I mean, I think, of course, by the title of this episode, maybe, I don’t know, you know, what’s coming.
[0:06:44 – 0:06:49] Erik: When’s the last time we’ve had an episode title that let you know what you could expect?
[0:06:50 – 0:06:51] Adam: Yeah, I don’t prefer it.
[0:06:51 – 0:06:53] Erik: They’re kind of fun to come up with.
[0:06:53 – 0:06:56] Erik: I prefer to have the off the walls episode.
[0:06:56 – 0:06:57] Erik: I do too.
[0:06:57 – 0:06:57] Erik: Yeah.
[0:06:58 – 0:07:03] Adam: Well, it’s not great for the algorithms, but as a proud independent podcast, we really could care less.
[0:07:03 – 0:07:03] Erik: Yeah.
[0:07:04 – 0:07:04] Adam: Yeah.
[0:07:04 – 0:07:05] Adam: We’ll listen to them or they won’t.
[0:07:06 – 0:07:06] Adam: Yeah.
[0:07:06 – 0:07:07] Adam: Fine.
[0:07:07 – 0:07:07] Adam: Either way.
[0:07:07 – 0:07:13] Erik: This one I find has a strong likelihood that it will have a coherent title.
[0:07:14 – 0:07:16] Erik: And we’re going to get there.
[0:07:16 – 0:07:17] Erik: The meat’s coming.
[0:07:17 – 0:07:17] Adam: This just in.
[0:07:18 – 0:07:19] Adam: Coherent title.
[0:07:19 – 0:07:20] Adam: That could be a good title.
[0:07:20 – 0:07:21] Adam: This just in.
[0:07:21 – 0:07:22] Adam: Coherent title.
[0:07:22 – 0:07:23] Adam: In brackets.
[0:07:23 – 0:07:24] Adam: Finger on.
[0:07:24 – 0:07:25] Adam: Finger on the earpiece.
[0:07:25 – 0:07:26] Adam: Coherent title.
[0:07:27 – 0:07:28] Adam: Yeah.
[0:07:28 – 0:07:29] Erik: They’re bracketing their titles now?
[0:07:29 – 0:07:31] Adam: They’re telling me we have to bracket our titles now?
[0:07:31 – 0:07:32] Adam: I don’t like this.
[0:07:32 – 0:07:34] Adam: I don’t like this because of the fires.
[0:07:34 – 0:07:35] Erik: Because of the fires.
[0:07:35 – 0:07:41] Erik: They’re really painting a picture in their descriptions and titles of episodes these days.
[0:07:41 – 0:07:43] Erik: Yeah, we’re going to talk about…
[0:07:43 – 0:07:47] Erik: Boy, I don’t think there has been…
[0:07:49 – 0:07:52] Erik: I don’t even know how you would describe it, this whole permit quota system.
[0:07:53 – 0:08:01] Erik: If you’re just tuning in, yeah, there’s some news about the Forest Service reducing permit quotas in the Boundary Waters.
[0:08:01 – 0:08:02] Erik: We’re going to have a little conversation about that.
[0:08:03 – 0:08:11] Erik: And then we’re going to mostly talk about, I think, a thing that we vaguely touched on in the past, maybe even said we would never really get into.
[0:08:11 – 0:08:15] Erik: I don’t know why we had such thoughts as those.
[0:08:15 – 0:08:37] Erik: But we’re going to kind of talk about our personal feelings on some of the differences between the west side of the park, the east side of the park, and maybe where those areas blur, and what, in practical purposes, that means for you if you are looking to put together a trip for this summer, or who knows, maybe it’s 2050.
[0:08:37 – 0:08:37] Erik: Dun-dun!
[0:08:41 – 0:08:44] Adam: And it’s all just grasslands.
[0:08:45 – 0:08:46] Adam: Oaks.
[0:08:46 – 0:08:47] Adam: 2050, though?
[0:08:47 – 0:08:48] Adam: Probably like 2080.
[0:08:49 – 0:08:50] Adam: Really?
[0:08:50 – 0:08:53] Adam: Well, the oaks burned down in 2082, so…
[0:08:54 – 0:08:55] Erik: The great burning of 2082?
[0:08:55 – 0:08:55] Erik: Yeah.
[0:08:57 – 0:09:08] Erik: So, yeah, we’re going to talk about the Forest Service and their lack of being anything worth putting taxpayer dollars towards.
[0:09:10 – 0:09:11] Adam: I just got my W-2.
[0:09:11 – 0:09:12] Adam: I paid a lot in taxes this year.
[0:09:13 – 0:09:13] Adam: Yeah.
[0:09:14 – 0:09:16] Erik: I’ve got my personal opinions on it.
[0:09:17 – 0:09:18] Erik: And I’m still going…
[0:09:18 – 0:09:23] Erik: I’ll have to reset the current mindset, which is…
[0:09:25 – 0:09:29] Erik: No longer an outfitter, but I can still remember what it was like.
[0:09:30 – 0:09:31] Adam: Once an outfitter, always an outfitter.
[0:09:31 – 0:09:36] Erik: Based on some of those changes, I’ll let you know how I would feel if I were still an outfitter.
[0:09:37 – 0:09:38] Erik: All right.
[0:09:38 – 0:09:42] Erik: But before we get there, we’ve obviously got the, what’s the opposite of meat?
[0:09:44 – 0:09:44] Erik: Pork.
[0:09:44 – 0:09:45] Erik: Beer.
[0:09:46 – 0:09:47] Erik: The opposite of meat is pork?
[0:09:48 – 0:09:48] Erik: Not quite.
[0:09:48 – 0:09:50] Adam: No, I think beer is it.
[0:09:50 – 0:09:51] Adam: It’s liquid meat.
[0:09:51 – 0:09:52] Adam: Yeah, liquid meat.
[0:09:52 – 0:09:54] Erik: We’ve got a beer sponsorship.
[0:09:54 – 0:09:55] Erik: Oh, boy.
[0:09:55 – 0:09:56] Adam: I can already tell from here.
[0:09:56 – 0:09:58] Adam: I’m not even going to wait until next week’s episode.
[0:09:58 – 0:10:03] Adam: I apologize to pork and all the fine pork producers of this land and all the pork itself.
[0:10:04 – 0:10:07] Erik: Yeah, we’ve got a lot of listeners from Iowa probably tending to some hogs right now.
[0:10:08 – 0:10:10] Adam: I think that’s why I thought immediately of pork.
[0:10:11 – 0:10:13] Adam: But this beer is the liquid pork.
[0:10:13 – 0:10:15] Adam: It’s from Iowa.
[0:10:15 – 0:10:16] Adam: What do we got here?
[0:10:16 – 0:10:17] Adam: Fire Trucker?
[0:10:17 – 0:10:20] Adam: This one was left anonymously.
[0:10:20 – 0:10:22] Adam: I did try very hard to…
[0:10:23 – 0:10:46] Adam: find any sort of uh semblance of a signature i think it was almost purposely left anonymous though and i do apologize the wind destroyed the beautiful bag it came in this is like a twin peaks ask mystery even the bag itself is looked like it’s self-stamped with a beautiful fire trucker logo here uh the name of the brewery is uh fire trucker
[0:10:48 – 0:10:49] Adam: Ankeny, Iowa.
[0:10:49 – 0:10:49] Adam: Ankeny.
[0:10:49 – 0:10:50] Adam: Nailed it.
[0:10:51 – 0:10:51] Adam: Ankeny.
[0:10:51 – 0:10:52] Adam: Ankeny.
[0:10:52 – 0:10:53] Adam: That’s how they say it in Iowa.
[0:10:53 – 0:10:55] Adam: We got ourselves a… 8.5.
[0:10:55 – 0:10:56] Erik: Come on.
[0:10:56 – 0:10:58] Adam: We got ourselves a double whammy here.
[0:10:58 – 0:11:01] Adam: We got an Iowa IPA, American IPA.
[0:11:02 – 0:11:03] Erik: Well, there goes the roof.
[0:11:03 – 0:11:08] Adam: And the roof just came off the K2, and then we got ourselves a tropical burn.
[0:11:09 – 0:11:12] Adam: What the heck is this one?
[0:11:12 – 0:11:14] Adam: Oh, it’s a hazy DIPA.
[0:11:15 – 0:11:16] Adam: What the heck does that mean?
[0:11:16 – 0:11:17] Adam: Double?
[0:11:17 – 0:11:20] Adam: Oh, of course it does mean it’s a double IPA.
[0:11:20 – 0:11:20] Adam: Oh, of course it does.
[0:11:20 – 0:11:22] Adam: Eric, they tricked me once again.
[0:11:22 – 0:11:23] Adam: This one’s an 8.5.
[0:11:24 – 0:11:27] Adam: These are some wild boys from Iowa.
[0:11:27 – 0:11:28] Erik: What was the other one?
[0:11:29 – 0:11:31] Adam: I think we had two of each is what’s the deal here.
[0:11:31 – 0:11:32] Erik: Oh, six.
[0:11:32 – 0:11:34] Erik: Let’s do the six to start.
[0:11:34 – 0:11:36] Erik: All right, we’re going to start with the regular IPA.
[0:11:36 – 0:11:38] Erik: One, two, three, chicken bone.
[0:11:38 – 0:11:39] Adam: I got it this time.
[0:11:39 – 0:11:40] Adam: Look at this guy.
[0:11:40 – 0:11:41] Erik: I get all three now.
[0:11:42 – 0:11:43] Adam: Because of the fires.
[0:11:43 – 0:11:44] Adam: Because of the fires.
[0:11:45 – 0:11:47] Adam: Because of the fires.
[0:11:47 – 0:11:49] Adam: Kinnickity, Iowa.
[0:11:49 – 0:11:50] Adam: Kinnickity?
[0:11:50 – 0:11:53] Adam: Kinnickity, Iowa.
[0:11:53 – 0:11:54] Adam: Home of the IPA.
[0:11:54 – 0:11:56] Adam: I think that’s where they invented the IPA.
[0:11:57 – 0:11:59] Adam: What did you do, Dears?
[0:11:59 – 0:12:01] Adam: Because of the wishbone, Eric.
[0:12:02 – 0:12:04] Erik: That’s what you get for winning chicken bone.
[0:12:06 – 0:12:08] Adam: It’s got a crazy person.
[0:12:08 – 0:12:11] Erik: Half of the American Gothic guy.
[0:12:12 – 0:12:13] Erik: Pitchfork man.
[0:12:13 – 0:12:13] Adam: Grant Wood.
[0:12:13 – 0:12:14] Adam: It’s Grant Wood there.
[0:12:15 – 0:12:15] Adam: Is that him?
[0:12:15 – 0:12:18] Adam: Yeah, it’s a self-portrait with a pitchfork.
[0:12:19 – 0:12:19] Adam: Pretty sure.
[0:12:20 – 0:12:26] Erik: Do you have the history of that famous American painting that you can lay down on us right now?
[0:12:26 – 0:12:27] Adam: No, I really don’t.
[0:12:28 – 0:12:35] Adam: I’ve got a nice picture of a tractor here, a wind turbine over a beautiful red barn.
[0:12:36 – 0:12:37] Adam: This is the shoe, actually.
[0:12:37 – 0:12:39] Adam: The painting is signed in the bottom right corner.
[0:12:39 – 0:12:41] Adam: It’s a shoe 21.
[0:12:41 – 0:12:42] Adam: It’s a beautiful thing.
[0:12:42 – 0:12:46] Erik: It looks like the state capitol on there, the cool old Winnebago camper.
[0:12:48 – 0:12:48] Erik: Yeah.
[0:12:49 – 0:12:49] Erik: Ankeny.
[0:12:50 – 0:12:50] Erik: No story.
[0:12:51 – 0:12:52] Erik: I don’t know what your story is, fire trucker.
[0:12:52 – 0:12:53] Adam: This is like neo-impressionism.
[0:12:54 – 0:12:56] Erik: Neo-impressionism.
[0:12:57 – 0:12:57] SPEAKER_03: Nice.
[0:12:57 – 0:13:00] Adam: Thank you to the mystery guest.
[0:13:00 – 0:13:01] Adam: Also, Eric, there’s more.
[0:13:02 – 0:13:02] Adam: There’s more.
[0:13:04 – 0:13:05] Erik: Oh, tease?
[0:13:06 – 0:13:07] Erik: Fire trucker tease?
[0:13:07 – 0:13:08] Adam: What the heck was that?
[0:13:08 – 0:13:10] Erik: You’re dropping all over the table here.
[0:13:10 – 0:13:10] Erik: Oh, my God.
[0:13:10 – 0:13:12] Adam: There’s a bunch of seeds or something.
[0:13:12 – 0:13:14] Erik: Nice job, fire trucker.
[0:13:14 – 0:13:15] Erik: Oh, no.
[0:13:15 – 0:13:15] Erik: Hey.
[0:13:16 – 0:13:18] Erik: You had a little chew action there on the shirt.
[0:13:19 – 0:13:21] Erik: Just let my nipple ring show.
[0:13:22 – 0:13:22] Adam: That’s perfect.
[0:13:23 – 0:13:25] Adam: So I cut it out perfect for Eric’s nipple ring.
[0:13:26 – 0:13:26] Erik: Single.
[0:13:27 – 0:13:27] Erik: Yeah.
[0:13:27 – 0:13:27] Erik: Singular.
[0:13:28 – 0:13:29] Adam: Who knows what happened there.
[0:13:29 – 0:13:30] Adam: Nice fire trucker t-shirt.
[0:13:30 – 0:13:31] Adam: Okay.
[0:13:31 – 0:13:33] Adam: And I think there’s two of them actually.
[0:13:33 – 0:13:34] Adam: There are.
[0:13:35 – 0:13:36] Adam: Eric gets the one with the nipple hole.
[0:13:39 – 0:13:40] Erik: Oh, there’s more?
[0:13:40 – 0:13:42] Erik: It’s just a handful of seeds.
[0:13:43 – 0:13:44] Adam: And I got you a big pile of seeds, Eric.
[0:13:45 – 0:13:46] Adam: Here’s some nice stickers for you.
[0:13:47 – 0:13:48] Adam: There’s some very nice stickers.
[0:13:50 – 0:13:50] Erik: Nice.
[0:13:50 – 0:13:51] Erik: Those are beauts.
[0:13:51 – 0:13:53] Adam: I see one of them is like holographic.
[0:13:53 – 0:13:55] Erik: A couple of them are holographic.
[0:13:55 – 0:13:55] Adam: Come back.
[0:13:56 – 0:13:56] Adam: Oh, my God.
[0:13:57 – 0:13:57] Adam: The wind.
[0:13:58 – 0:14:01] Adam: Even in the house, the wind is blowing stuff away from me.
[0:14:01 – 0:14:01] Adam: Yes.
[0:14:02 – 0:14:03] Adam: Those are nice stickers.
[0:14:03 – 0:14:09] Adam: To the mystery person who dropped off this delightful bag of goodies from
[0:14:09 – 0:14:10] Erik: Maybe next time.
[0:14:11 – 0:14:12] Erik: Not so many seeds.
[0:14:15 – 0:14:17] Adam: I don’t think they’re responsible for the seeds.
[0:14:17 – 0:14:18] Adam: Where are these seeds coming from?
[0:14:18 – 0:14:19] Adam: Who knows?
[0:14:20 – 0:14:24] Adam: Thank you to Fire Trucker and whoever dropped these off.
[0:14:24 – 0:14:25] Adam: Wonderful.
[0:14:25 – 0:14:29] Adam: I look forward to Eric wearing the t-shirt with a nipple hole in it.
[0:14:30 – 0:14:33] Erik: I’m going to just have to get one of those nipple rings now.
[0:14:34 – 0:14:38] Adam: Yeah, you should get a little chain that connects to your wallet, too, right off the nipple ring.
[0:14:38 – 0:14:40] Erik: You’d really know if somebody was robbing you.
[0:14:41 – 0:14:45] Adam: Next time we’re at Eddie Falls, you’re going to really shock the Boy Scouts with that look.
[0:14:45 – 0:14:53] Erik: Eddie Falls nipple ring chain to a pair of MeUndies that have a wallet just between the underwear and the skin.
[0:14:54 – 0:14:55] Erik: No pockets.
[0:14:56 – 0:14:57] Erik: It’s just tight enough.
[0:14:58 – 0:14:59] Erik: You can hold it right in there.
[0:15:01 – 0:15:07] Adam: I’m going to give this American IPA four out of five nipple rings.
[0:15:07 – 0:15:08] Adam: Thank you.
[0:15:08 – 0:15:10] Erik: Four out of five nipple rings.
[0:15:12 – 0:15:13] Erik: Yeah, I think that’s fair.
[0:15:13 – 0:15:16] Erik: Keep cycling and recycling.
[0:15:16 – 0:15:18] Adam: I’ll give it four out of five American gothics.
[0:15:19 – 0:15:22] Adam: I didn’t realize American gothic was staged in Iowa.
[0:15:22 – 0:15:22] Erik: Was it?
[0:15:23 – 0:15:24] Adam: Well, apparently.
[0:15:24 – 0:15:26] Adam: I mean, I assume it was based on the fact that it’s on the can.
[0:15:27 – 0:15:27] Erik: Okay.
[0:15:27 – 0:15:28] Erik: Well, I trust you.
[0:15:29 – 0:15:33] Adam: Well, I guess I’m just going to go ahead and trust Fire Trucker, you know, on this one.
[0:15:33 – 0:15:37] Adam: I don’t know anything about art or culture, really.
[0:15:37 – 0:15:38] Adam: Yeah, I mean, that’s true.
[0:15:38 – 0:15:41] Adam: I think I was just borrowed from Antiques Roadshow on the internet.
[0:15:41 – 0:15:45] Erik: What is the worst cheese, Adam?
[0:15:48 – 0:15:50] Erik: You’re from the land of cheese.
[0:15:50 – 0:15:52] Erik: What’s the worst cheese?
[0:15:52 – 0:15:53] Erik: The worst cheese.
[0:15:54 – 0:15:57] Erik: Like at the end of the day, you sit it down.
[0:15:58 – 0:15:59] Adam: Marble Jack.
[0:15:59 – 0:16:00] Adam: Marble Jack?
[0:16:00 – 0:16:01] Adam: Colby Jack.
[0:16:01 – 0:16:02] Adam: Colby Jack.
[0:16:02 – 0:16:04] Adam: Yeah, I’m going to go with Colby Jack is the worst cheese.
[0:16:05 – 0:16:05] Adam: The worst cheese.
[0:16:05 – 0:16:06] Adam: Not just the gut reaction.
[0:16:06 – 0:16:09] Adam: I didn’t know you were going to ask me this or had thought about it a little bit more.
[0:16:09 – 0:16:14] Erik: We had a conversation before the show where we started talking about this and I hung on to it.
[0:16:15 – 0:16:17] Erik: And I wanted to actually have the conversation on mic.
[0:16:18 – 0:16:20] Adam: I didn’t think you were going to do this to me.
[0:16:20 – 0:16:21] Adam: I love all cheeses, though.
[0:16:21 – 0:16:23] Adam: But all cheeses do not matter, frankly.
[0:16:24 – 0:16:26] Erik: All cheeses do not matter?
[0:16:26 – 0:16:27] Erik: All cheese lives don’t matter?
[0:16:27 – 0:16:29] Adam: That’s not what I said.
[0:16:30 – 0:16:31] Adam: I didn’t say that at all.
[0:16:32 – 0:16:32] Adam: Close enough.
[0:16:33 – 0:16:34] Adam: Colby Jack is shit.
[0:16:35 – 0:16:36] Adam: I’m sorry.
[0:16:36 – 0:16:39] Adam: You provoked me with cheese talk.
[0:16:39 – 0:16:39] Adam: 1638.
[0:16:39 – 0:16:41] Erik: You just said we were going full E on this episode.
[0:16:41 – 0:16:42] Erik: I guess we are now.
[0:16:42 – 0:16:43] Erik: Well, you can write it down.
[0:16:43 – 0:16:44] Erik: We’ll see if I remember.
[0:16:44 – 0:16:44] Erik: 1638.
[0:16:44 – 0:16:44] Adam: Why Colby Jack?
[0:16:48 – 0:16:49] Adam: Doesn’t taste like anything, honestly.
[0:16:50 – 0:16:51] Adam: Tastes like plastic almost.
[0:16:51 – 0:16:52] Adam: That’s not real cheese.
[0:16:53 – 0:16:53] Erik: Yeah, I’ll give you that.
[0:16:53 – 0:16:54] Adam: It’s an abomination.
[0:16:54 – 0:16:58] Adam: I don’t know how cheeses are made, but I guarantee there’s some funny stuff going on.
[0:16:58 – 0:17:01] Adam: I don’t like funny stuff, Eric, when it comes to cheese.
[0:17:02 – 0:17:02] Adam: I can’t imagine.
[0:17:03 – 0:17:04] Adam: That’s Colby Jack.
[0:17:04 – 0:17:27] Adam: colby jack it’s like a combination too of yeah colby and monterey jack i’m not crazy about either no b or monterey jack i get where you’re coming from but there are they’re rat ass both of them texture you can melt it sure it’s got melting soft cheeses you can melt into a quesadilla you don’t need colby jack all right i’m fine my what’s the worst cheese in your opinion feta
[0:17:28 – 0:17:50] Adam: wow oh yeah i forgot we did right we did rag on feta a little bit when i got here it’s the worst yeah it’s like the limestone that orlando is built on it’s nothing it’s nothing it’s barely above sea level it’s got the moisture content of the crap i pull out of my belly button twice a day yeah and tastes like a moldy cave
[0:17:50 – 0:18:08] Erik: well it’s a little saltier than a moldy cave though that’s all it is it’s just taste it tastes like more than colby jack that’s for sure it’s like they just took the cheese water after the actual cheese came out of the vat and then like somehow manifested that into like a puff of cheese quote-unquote
[0:18:08 – 0:18:10] Adam: Well, when you put it that way, I kind of like it.
[0:18:12 – 0:18:12] UNKNOWN: Nah.
[0:18:13 – 0:18:14] Erik: It’s the texture that I hate.
[0:18:14 – 0:18:19] Erik: I’m also not a huge fan of cheeses that don’t melt in your mouth.
[0:18:19 – 0:18:20] Adam: Uh-huh.
[0:18:20 – 0:18:22] Adam: Or can’t melt under like… You gotta work for it.
[0:18:23 – 0:18:24] Adam: It’s like the cat of cheeses.
[0:18:25 – 0:18:26] Erik: Yeah, and cats suck.
[0:18:26 – 0:18:27] Erik: What?
[0:18:27 – 0:18:28] Erik: There it is.
[0:18:28 – 0:18:28] Erik: Episode 178.
[0:18:29 – 0:18:31] Erik: The truth’s coming out.
[0:18:31 – 0:18:32] Adam: You son of a bitch.
[0:18:32 – 0:18:34] Adam: Pause this episode right now.
[0:18:35 – 0:18:37] Adam: Cats are gods on this earth, Eric.
[0:18:39 – 0:18:40] Erik: Well, there you have it.
[0:18:40 – 0:18:42] Erik: Colby Jack and Feta.
[0:18:43 – 0:18:44] Adam: Yeah, they’re both terrible.
[0:18:44 – 0:18:45] Erik: They’re both terrible.
[0:18:45 – 0:18:45] Adam: I don’t know.
[0:18:46 – 0:18:49] Adam: I’m kind of on board with the Feta, but I get where you’re coming from.
[0:18:49 – 0:18:50] Adam: I’ll say that.
[0:18:50 – 0:18:55] Adam: But the slander on the cats, I cannot accept.
[0:18:55 – 0:18:56] Adam: I wouldn’t let it abide.
[0:18:56 – 0:18:59] Erik: I’m not a huge fan of like loose, crumbly cheese.
[0:19:01 – 0:19:03] Erik: Like beyond blue cheese.
[0:19:03 – 0:19:04] Erik: Yeah.
[0:19:04 – 0:19:07] Erik: Or like Gorgonzola, which are both chef’s kiss.
[0:19:07 – 0:19:08] Erik: Mwah.
[0:19:08 – 0:19:08] Adam: Beautiful.
[0:19:09 – 0:19:11] Erik: I don’t know where Feta gets it all wrong.
[0:19:11 – 0:19:12] Erik: I think it’s too young.
[0:19:13 – 0:19:15] Adam: Well, what are you doing with feta, though?
[0:19:15 – 0:19:18] Adam: That’s probably the issue here.
[0:19:18 – 0:19:21] Erik: Walking by in the grocery store and not buying it.
[0:19:21 – 0:19:24] Adam: You’re not just taking a block of feta and having a bite out of it.
[0:19:25 – 0:19:26] Adam: You would with a Colby Jack.
[0:19:28 – 0:19:29] Erik: That’s a lot.
[0:19:30 – 0:19:31] Erik: Both of those scenarios sound terrible.
[0:19:31 – 0:19:35] Adam: They should be chopped into a fine cube and put in a salad.
[0:19:36 – 0:19:37] Erik: A fine cube.
[0:19:37 – 0:19:37] Erik: Yeah.
[0:19:37 – 0:19:40] Adam: It’s more of a texture and a salty.
[0:19:40 – 0:19:46] Adam: It’s more of like the bonito flakes that you put on as a garnish on the lake trout sushi last week, Eric.
[0:19:46 – 0:19:48] Adam: It’s not meant to be the main course.
[0:19:48 – 0:19:50] Adam: It’s meant to be like a couturement.
[0:19:50 – 0:19:51] Erik: I get that.
[0:19:51 – 0:19:58] Erik: And before we get it down that path too far, let’s just say that I did not put bonito flakes on the sushi last week.
[0:19:59 – 0:19:59] Adam: Well, I thought you did.
[0:19:59 – 0:20:00] Adam: No.
[0:20:01 – 0:20:01] Ducktales: No.
[0:20:02 – 0:20:03] Adam: Was that an illusion as well?
[0:20:03 – 0:20:11] Erik: I think it was just that perfectly like little ball-sized little snow grapple that kind of looked like bonito.
[0:20:12 – 0:20:12] Erik: But I get what you’re saying.
[0:20:12 – 0:20:18] Erik: Like, yeah, you would never just take a handful of bonito flakes and be like, yum, concentrated fish.
[0:20:18 – 0:20:20] Adam: This is the worst fish I’ve ever had.
[0:20:20 – 0:20:20] Adam: Yeah.
[0:20:21 – 0:20:22] Erik: Same thing with feta.
[0:20:22 – 0:20:23] Adam: You got to use it right.
[0:20:23 – 0:20:25] Erik: Yeah, you would never just like eat a handful of feta.
[0:20:25 – 0:20:30] Adam: Whereas Colby Jack, there’s really no useful purpose for it unless you want to have the worst taco of your life.
[0:20:31 – 0:20:38] Erik: I guess the only useful thing for it is if you just wanted that like the texture of melted cheese.
[0:20:39 – 0:20:40] Adam: I guess, yeah.
[0:20:40 – 0:20:44] Adam: If you want all the calories and know of the pleasure, then… And know of the pleasure.
[0:20:44 – 0:20:46] Adam: Colby Jack is your cheese, sir.
[0:20:47 – 0:20:55] Erik: Oh, you’re just bringing me back to my Pimsleur Spanish lessons by like saying a sentence literally means know of the cheese.
[0:20:58 – 0:20:58] Adam: Yes.
[0:20:59 – 0:20:59] Adam: All right.
[0:21:00 – 0:21:01] Adam: Well…
[0:21:01 – 0:21:02] Erik: Let’s get into these permits, huh?
[0:21:03 – 0:21:04] Erik: People are hot and bothered.
[0:21:04 – 0:21:09] Erik: You’re getting a little of that, you know, the pulling of the tight neck.
[0:21:10 – 0:21:12] Adam: Yeah, there’s like a bunch of comments about this.
[0:21:12 – 0:21:16] Erik: Did you read the letter that Pete Stauber wrote to the president or whatever?
[0:21:16 – 0:21:19] Adam: I do not care what Pete Stauber has to think about anything.
[0:21:19 – 0:21:43] Adam: okay moving on anyway the forest service in a reaction to was he trying to sell it to the chilean mining company or yes i assume that was the point of the letter yeah if you read between the lines he cares very deeply about the uh the profits that can be had from the boundary waters yes basically standing up for small business people oh yeah now he cares
[0:21:44 – 0:21:45] Erik: Now he cares.
[0:21:45 – 0:21:53] Erik: So if you’ve seen this, heard about this, the U.S. Forest Service has made a 13% cut in daily overnight camping permits into the boundary waters.
[0:21:54 – 0:21:58] Erik: I’m sure everybody that’s listening is well aware of the details.
[0:21:58 – 0:21:59] Adam: They’re finally talking about it.
[0:22:00 – 0:22:00] Adam: Finally.
[0:22:01 – 0:22:07] Erik: Yeah, there was some questions on our Tumble Homecast subreddit for a bit of a weigh-in on this.
[0:22:07 – 0:22:16] Erik: We did mention, I think a few weeks ago, maybe a month ago now, we did talk about this, but it was before they divulged the actual details.
[0:22:16 – 0:22:24] Adam: Well, they just said they were going to reduce it, and we’re making fun of them because they’re, well, of course they’re going to say they’re going to do something with releasing zero detail.
[0:22:25 – 0:22:27] Erik: Yeah, no, I honestly have no idea.
[0:22:27 – 0:22:38] Erik: And I’d like for this not to be the meat of the episode at all, because how many different times and ways can we say that the U.S. Forest Service sucks at what they do?
[0:22:38 – 0:22:40] Adam: This is the Colby Jack of the episode.
[0:22:40 – 0:22:41] Erik: They don’t understand.
[0:22:41 – 0:22:43] Erik: They don’t understand the…
[0:22:47 – 0:22:54] Erik: The users, they don’t understand small businesses that are trying to run profitable businesses off of the wilderness.
[0:22:56 – 0:23:06] Erik: Everything that they do is on their own terms and a surprise to almost everybody involved, probably even within the U.S. Forest Service.
[0:23:07 – 0:23:07] Adam: Oh, yeah.
[0:23:08 – 0:23:09] Adam: I think that’s probably the worst of it.
[0:23:09 – 0:23:14] Adam: Probably people in there who are close to the situation that were also surprised.
[0:23:14 – 0:23:17] Erik: Yeah, so just a brief recap of the timeline.
[0:23:17 – 0:23:21] Erik: A little over a month ago, like… Newswire.
[0:23:21 – 0:23:23] Erik: Early December, they announced, yeah, we’re going to reduce some permits.
[0:23:24 – 0:23:25] Erik: Here’s that information for you.
[0:23:25 – 0:23:27] Erik: Go suck on that bone for a little while.
[0:23:27 – 0:23:28] Erik: I don’t know.
[0:23:28 – 0:23:31] Erik: We didn’t have any… We had no…
[0:23:31 – 0:23:31] Erik: Okay.
[0:23:32 – 0:23:33] Erik: Up, like…
[0:23:33 – 0:23:36] Erik: There’s no warning.
[0:23:36 – 0:23:37] Erik: This is happening.
[0:23:37 – 0:23:38] Erik: This is just going to happen.
[0:23:38 – 0:23:40] Erik: Well, what do you mean by that?
[0:23:41 – 0:23:46] Erik: Oh, you just wait an indetermined amount of time for us to tell you exactly what that means.
[0:23:46 – 0:23:49] Erik: You will be informed in due course.
[0:23:49 – 0:23:55] Erik: Wait, I mean, so do you know how like the world works these days for a service, right?
[0:23:55 – 0:23:57] Erik: I had to order all of my gear.
[0:23:57 – 0:24:01] Erik: I’m talking as an outfitter now, putting my outfitter hat on.
[0:24:01 – 0:24:02] Erik: Right.
[0:24:02 – 0:24:03] Erik: I had to order all my canoes.
[0:24:03 – 0:24:09] Erik: I had to order all my gear in like August and September because of how long it takes for things to get produced and manufactured.
[0:24:10 – 0:24:17] Erik: And now you’re going to just blanket reduce a questionable dark outfit
[0:24:17 – 0:24:32] Erik: amount of permits that may or may not affect me well that’s great so i get about a month to worry about that you didn’t give me a pre like it’s the same thing every time it’s the bear barrel mandate that they did they just pulled that out in the middle of the summer yeah
[0:24:33 – 0:24:39] Erik: Like, I can’t imagine being an outfitter anymore, trying to work with these people.
[0:24:39 – 0:24:40] Adam: These people.
[0:24:40 – 0:24:43] Erik: They let you know, well, we’re going to be reducing quotas.
[0:24:44 – 0:24:46] Erik: I don’t know when, but it’s going to happen.
[0:24:47 – 0:24:52] Erik: So just like, I don’t know, a little over a week ago, they finally put out what’s getting reduced.
[0:24:53 – 0:24:56] Erik: And doesn’t seem like very many people are happy about it.
[0:24:57 – 0:24:58] Adam: It’s pretty drastic.
[0:24:58 – 0:25:00] Erik: It’s, yeah, I mean, it’s…
[0:25:01 – 0:25:01] Adam: It’s pretty drastic.
[0:25:02 – 0:25:02] Erik: It’s pretty drastic.
[0:25:02 – 0:25:03] Erik: It’s pretty random.
[0:25:04 – 0:25:05] Erik: It doesn’t seem to make a whole lot of sense.
[0:25:06 – 0:25:08] Erik: It seems like they’re picking on the Vento a little bit, if you ask me.
[0:25:09 – 0:25:09] Adam: Oh.
[0:25:09 – 0:25:11] Adam: Which… That’s your Vento bias, probably.
[0:25:12 – 0:25:25] Erik: It might be my Vento bias, but I did a little, a tiny, just the tiniest little bit of work before this episode and kind of went through and just compared where permits got removed and
[0:25:25 – 0:25:27] Erik: No permits were added, really.
[0:25:27 – 0:25:30] Erik: Right away on first glance, if you look at it, you’ll see, oh, plus six.
[0:25:30 – 0:25:33] Erik: And it’s just like, oh, all you were doing is removing the…
[0:25:34 – 0:25:34] Adam: The onlys.
[0:25:34 – 0:25:40] Erik: The onlys, which is, again, I guess if they would have… Only the onlys.
[0:25:40 – 0:25:42] Adam: This is like, we got to do a doo-wop.
[0:25:43 – 0:25:43] Adam: A doo-wop.
[0:25:43 – 0:25:45] SPEAKER_03: Only the onlys.
[0:25:47 – 0:25:47] Adam: Brutal.
[0:25:47 – 0:25:49] Adam: I’m single.
[0:25:49 – 0:25:50] Adam: Oh yeah.
[0:25:51 – 0:25:54] Adam: Only the onlys.
[0:25:55 – 0:25:55] Erik: Well, you keep singing.
[0:25:55 – 0:25:58] Erik: Text me what song you’re singing so I can join in.
[0:25:59 – 0:26:24] Adam: bow that’s the end of the song you missed out anyways everybody listening knew what i was singing eric you missed out on that one but uh i don’t know how many other lakes have only permits though i mean i just thought those were weird but if they would have just done that do away with the onlys and then add like half of them back in me the only stop singing he’s gotta stop singing is it only the lonely
[0:26:24 – 0:26:26] Adam: I don’t know what I’m even singing.
[0:26:26 – 0:26:26] Adam: Good.
[0:26:26 – 0:26:26] Adam: Okay.
[0:26:26 – 0:26:27] Adam: I’m glad.
[0:26:27 – 0:26:28] Adam: I’m like, am I missing?
[0:26:29 – 0:26:31] Adam: New Motown hit from the Tumblewood Boys.
[0:26:32 – 0:26:33] Adam: New Motown.
[0:26:33 – 0:26:35] Adam: The Kings of Soul and Canoes.
[0:26:35 – 0:26:37] Erik: There is a genre that we should… Neo Motown?
[0:26:38 – 0:26:39] Adam: I was thinking Canoe Soul.
[0:26:44 – 0:26:46] Adam: Only the lowlies.
[0:26:46 – 0:26:48] Adam: Where’s that snap?
[0:26:50 – 0:26:51] Adam: Stop snapping.
[0:26:51 – 0:26:52] Adam: You’re ruining the audio.
[0:26:52 – 0:26:55] Adam: You’re really screwing up our tones.
[0:26:55 – 0:26:59] Erik: Those snaps were not added in posts, if you’re wondering.
[0:26:59 – 0:27:00] Erik: They might sound too good.
[0:27:00 – 0:27:02] Adam: I can’t whistle for us, but I can snap.
[0:27:04 – 0:27:05] Erik: Oh, yeah.
[0:27:06 – 0:27:16] Erik: So, yeah, they essentially took a bunch of permit daily quotas away from seemingly a random number of entry points.
[0:27:17 – 0:27:19] Erik: Some untouched.
[0:27:20 – 0:27:22] Erik: But most of them just a shaving.
[0:27:23 – 0:27:31] Erik: And I think if I was still outfitting at Clearwater, I would have looked at the reduction in permits to…
[0:27:32 – 0:27:42] Erik: South, Duncan, Clearwater, and East Bearskin as troubling, to say the least.
[0:27:43 – 0:27:43] Adam: The Jordan meme.
[0:27:44 – 0:27:44] Adam: Crying Jordan meme?
[0:27:44 – 0:27:47] Adam: No, no, the Jordan where he’s like, and I took that personally.
[0:27:47 – 0:27:48] Adam: And I took that personally.
[0:27:48 – 0:27:48] Adam: Yeah.
[0:27:51 – 0:27:53] Erik: Yeah, I would have taken it as a personal attack.
[0:27:53 – 0:27:53] Adam: John Stockton.
[0:27:54 – 0:28:04] Erik: I mean, you just think about on a daily basis, each one of those permits being – each one of those entry points being reduced by a permit a day.
[0:28:04 – 0:28:17] Erik: I mean, that would have a serious – that will have a serious impact on Clearwater, Bearskin, any mid-Gunflint Trail outfitters for sure.
[0:28:17 – 0:28:22] Erik: And that can make a big difference in the decisions that one makes in terms of how many canoes you would buy.
[0:28:23 – 0:28:25] Adam: What the hell are they going to do at Moon Lake Lodge?
[0:28:26 – 0:28:27] Adam: Moon Lake Lodge?
[0:28:27 – 0:28:29] Adam: So sad for them over there at Moon Lake Lodge.
[0:28:31 – 0:28:31] Erik: I don’t know.
[0:28:31 – 0:28:37] Erik: But I think the biggest takeaway that I’ve seen from most people, and I think, you know,
[0:28:40 – 0:28:44] Erik: Justifiably, everybody’s just confused.
[0:28:44 – 0:28:46] Erik: There was no consultation.
[0:28:46 – 0:28:48] Erik: There was no public comment.
[0:28:49 – 0:28:56] Erik: Where did you come up with the decisions to reduce permits in areas that you did and not reduce permits in other areas?
[0:28:57 – 0:29:05] Erik: And the Forest Service just kind of comes across with their blanket statements that they’re trying to mitigate overuse
[0:29:06 – 0:29:07] Erik: Social degradation.
[0:29:07 – 0:29:11] Erik: A lot of these terms that really you can’t quantify in any way.
[0:29:12 – 0:29:13] Adam: They’re like Colby Jack of termage.
[0:29:14 – 0:29:15] Erik: Of what?
[0:29:15 – 0:29:15] Adam: Termage.
[0:29:15 – 0:29:16] Adam: Termage.
[0:29:16 – 0:29:19] Adam: It’s a new kind of cheese.
[0:29:19 – 0:29:20] Adam: Termage.
[0:29:20 – 0:29:21] Adam: Termage from Ajiage.
[0:29:22 – 0:29:22] Adam: Yeah.
[0:29:22 – 0:29:26] SPEAKER_03: Oh, it’s a very taste.
[0:29:27 – 0:29:31] Adam: So, yeah, I, uh, you know, it’s a bunch of nonsense straight up, Eric.
[0:29:31 – 0:29:38] Erik: It is, I guess that, um, since the permit changes have come out, they’ve said that they’re going to double Rangers.
[0:29:39 – 0:29:39] Adam: Yeah.
[0:29:39 – 0:29:40] Adam: Well, that’s nice.
[0:29:41 – 0:29:42] Erik: That’s a good thing to hear that.
[0:29:42 – 0:29:42] Adam: Yeah.
[0:29:43 – 0:29:48] Adam: I would like to take this moment to personally apologize at any point in the last 177 episodes.
[0:29:48 – 0:29:51] Adam: If I’ve disparaged Rangers, uh,
[0:29:54 – 0:29:59] Adam: I know for a fact that I’ve said stuff like, oh, and I had to have my papers checked.
[0:30:01 – 0:30:04] Adam: I’ve got attitude when it comes to rangers, for sure, and I need to check that.
[0:30:05 – 0:30:05] Erik: Well, I need authority.
[0:30:05 – 0:30:06] Adam: I think we should be…
[0:30:06 – 0:30:09] Adam: I think I need to change my attitude.
[0:30:09 – 0:30:13] Adam: Yeah, I’m not a bootlicker or whatever, but rangers aren’t cops.
[0:30:13 – 0:30:18] Adam: I mean, they’re out there doing the right thing, trying to just help the wilderness and the park itself.
[0:30:19 – 0:30:23] Adam: I would say, for the most part, I’ve never run into a crooked ranger before.
[0:30:24 – 0:30:45] Adam: a crooked ranger not yet at least uh i hope i never will but um i just wanted i was thinking about this uh whole topic this week and i’ve been on the wrong side of this like running into a ranger is a good thing and i wish we had run into more of them because that would have checked a lot of the problems we’ve seen out there
[0:30:46 – 0:31:06] Adam: and so i’m going to try and be like more positive in the future if i do run into rangers and i guess i might because they’re going to have double the amount of rangers out there next year good and i hope they stick around the uh the entry point lakes and uh get after those bobbies and rexes please sure yeah before you know you can also come hang out with us
[0:31:07 – 0:31:15] Adam: Whether or not I might have, you know, a shirt on or a glass jar of ginger flakes or whatever.
[0:31:16 – 0:31:20] Adam: I mean, everybody out there breaks, like, rules in minor ways.
[0:31:20 – 0:31:23] Adam: But what we got to get after is these people cutting down the live trees.
[0:31:24 – 0:31:24] Adam: Jesus Lord.
[0:31:24 – 0:31:28] Erik: Well, so, yeah, that’s what I’m… Before we talk a little bit more about what I…
[0:31:29 – 0:31:37] Erik: have pure skepticism, cynicism, and pessimism about.
[0:31:37 – 0:31:38] Erik: Let’s just say that…
[0:31:38 – 0:31:46] Erik: So the West versus East side of the Boundary Waters, when it comes to permits and permit reduction, some rough numbers for you.
[0:31:47 – 0:31:47] Erik: You have the numbers.
[0:31:47 – 0:31:49] Erik: Do not quote me on this exactly.
[0:31:50 – 0:31:57] Erik: I did a quick scan through, and it also boils down to where you decide the East starts and the West ends, vice versa.
[0:31:57 – 0:31:58] Erik: But I basically…
[0:31:58 – 0:32:02] Adam: I assume it’s where the border is between Lake and Cook County.
[0:32:03 – 0:32:04] Erik: Yeah, I guess.
[0:32:04 – 0:32:05] Erik: It’s roughly…
[0:32:05 – 0:32:07] Erik: I determined it in terms of entry points.
[0:32:08 – 0:32:13] Erik: I included Hog Creek as the first eastern Boundary Waters entry point.
[0:32:13 – 0:32:14] Erik: Everything west of there.
[0:32:14 – 0:32:16] Adam: They just took all the permits away from Hog Creek.
[0:32:17 – 0:32:17] Adam: That’s nuts.
[0:32:17 – 0:32:18] Erik: They’re all gone?
[0:32:19 – 0:32:25] Adam: No.
[0:32:26 – 0:32:27] Adam: East versus the west.
[0:32:28 – 0:32:31] Adam: We’re all brothers and sisters.
[0:32:32 – 0:32:35] Adam: East versus the West.
[0:32:35 – 0:32:36] Erik: I want to talk more about Rangers.
[0:32:37 – 0:32:38] Adam: That was the drop.
[0:32:38 – 0:32:40] Adam: I’m sorry I played the drop early.
[0:32:40 – 0:32:41] Erik: The drop is a little too early.
[0:32:41 – 0:32:48] Erik: But anyway, so on any given day, roughly 135 groups can go in on the west side.
[0:32:49 – 0:32:51] Erik: Yeah, that’s a lot.
[0:32:51 – 0:32:53] Erik: And 119 on the east.
[0:32:53 – 0:32:54] Erik: This is before the change.
[0:32:55 – 0:32:59] Erik: They reduced the permits on the east side by 14 and 23 on the east.
[0:33:02 – 0:33:05] Erik: So, seems like the east side a little bit more affected.
[0:33:05 – 0:33:07] Erik: Also, it seems… Maybe it’s a good thing, though.
[0:33:07 – 0:33:08] Erik: Sure.
[0:33:08 – 0:33:11] Erik: I mean, that’s the biggest… That’s the big question, though.
[0:33:11 – 0:33:12] Erik: What will this actually do?
[0:33:14 – 0:33:39] Erik: right right fewer people yeah there are still the same number campsites are on the west side versus the east side though um how many entry points are uh on each side you know there’s 77 entry points give or take it’s pretty even 27 on the west 28 on the east right so but it seems like the for whatever reason the west side didn’t get like moose lake and fall like neither of those two entry points had any effect
[0:33:40 – 0:34:02] Adam: now does that have probably more outfitters does that have a little bit any does that have anything to do with a number of outfitters chamber of commerce crowd you know the boy scout base maybe maybe a little of the uh under table finger rubbing happening here capitalism runs the world and summer’s canoe base there’s more yeah there’s a little bit more uh you know
[0:34:04 – 0:34:07] Adam: A little bit more cash greasing the wheels over there, maybe.
[0:34:07 – 0:34:18] Erik: Yeah, and I think for whatever reason, I think they went pretty heavy in terms of anecdotal evidence.
[0:34:18 – 0:34:25] Erik: And for whatever reason, it seemed like, and I don’t know, I think it might be a product of just the…
[0:34:27 – 0:34:31] Erik: The coverage of it and where and how it gets disseminated.
[0:34:32 – 0:34:38] Erik: But you almost always were hearing about like the Vento area, the eastern Boundary Waters.
[0:34:38 – 0:34:45] Erik: Anytime a story came up about trees being cut down, over usage, not being able to find campsites.
[0:34:47 – 0:34:52] Erik: It seemed like those ones were more heavily focused on the east side and specifically the lakes around Clearwater.
[0:34:53 – 0:34:56] Adam: Are you saying the media has something to do with this?
[0:34:56 – 0:35:02] Erik: I’m saying that the media can have as much or as little to do with it as possible.
[0:35:02 – 0:35:05] Adam: That could be probably easily controlled by people with money?
[0:35:05 – 0:35:07] Adam: I don’t think so.
[0:35:07 – 0:35:11] Erik: Then for the Forest Service to base their decision on that is where I have a problem.
[0:35:14 – 0:35:15] Adam: You know who they serve.
[0:35:15 – 0:35:16] Adam: Come on.
[0:35:16 – 0:35:19] Erik: Who is the U.S. Forest Service serving?
[0:35:19 – 0:35:20] Adam: Money.
[0:35:20 – 0:35:21] Adam: Well, okay.
[0:35:21 – 0:35:23] Adam: Money is God, Eric.
[0:35:23 – 0:35:25] Adam: Have you not been paying attention to the last 177 episodes?
[0:35:25 – 0:35:27] Adam: Don’t give me this, Socko.
[0:35:27 – 0:35:31] Erik: Shut up, Socko.
[0:35:31 – 0:35:36] Adam: The globalist network of capital functions.
[0:35:36 – 0:35:38] Erik: You keep singing that song, I’m going to let my dog out.
[0:35:39 – 0:35:41] Adam: No, I don’t know the rest of the lyrics.
[0:35:41 – 0:35:42] Erik: Oh, are you saying no?
[0:35:44 – 0:35:46] Adam: Yeah, no, I really shouldn’t go outside.
[0:35:47 – 0:35:48] Adam: It’s really windy out there.
[0:35:53 – 0:35:58] Adam: To separate the worker from the means of production.
[0:35:58 – 0:36:01] Adam: The FBI killed.
[0:36:01 – 0:36:03] Erik: What were we talking about?
[0:36:03 – 0:36:12] Erik: What gives you any reason to think that nearly twice as many rangers in the Boundary Waters is going to do anything?
[0:36:14 – 0:36:14] Adam: I mean it can’t hurt.
[0:36:16 – 0:36:21] Erik: No, it can’t hurt, but not hurting something doesn’t make it better.
[0:36:21 – 0:36:29] Adam: I mean, I do think a big part of the reason we’re all in this situation is because there’s way too many…
[0:36:29 – 0:36:34] Adam: They had way more people coming in and less Rangers than ever before.
[0:36:34 – 0:36:43] Adam: The lack of enforcement is just allowing people to do what they want, which is, as we said before, we turn the mics on…
[0:36:45 – 0:36:49] Adam: People are just life forms trying to do what’s best for them, ultimately.
[0:36:51 – 0:36:56] Adam: Unfortunately, I do believe that most people only really care about themselves.
[0:36:56 – 0:37:02] Adam: If you let the people in general run loose in the park, they’re going to do whatever they want.
[0:37:02 – 0:37:15] Adam: And if you don’t have enforcement, that’s going to lead to more issues that we’ve been talking about, which is what ultimately is the problem here, is that it’s a wilderness that is designed for everybody to share.
[0:37:15 – 0:37:19] Adam: But unfortunately, there are some people out there that are just ruining it.
[0:37:20 – 0:37:22] Adam: And there’s nobody out there to stop them from doing that.
[0:37:23 – 0:37:28] Adam: And I don’t think it’s fair to put that on other campers to try and self-enforce.
[0:37:28 – 0:37:29] Erik: No, and I get that.
[0:37:29 – 0:37:31] Erik: I think that’s a good thing.
[0:37:31 – 0:37:33] Erik: But I don’t know if that’s necessarily going to change anything.
[0:37:34 – 0:37:35] Adam: I think it will.
[0:37:35 – 0:37:39] Adam: And honestly, if you have less people going in, that will help.
[0:37:39 – 0:37:49] Adam: Honestly, I mean, it’s preferable to just straight up closures, which is what we’re going to look at in five to ten years if this is not a trend that is reversed.
[0:37:49 – 0:37:54] Adam: We’re going to be looking at like complete, you know, you’re going to be like, oh, the Vento got its permits stripped by 5%.
[0:37:56 – 0:38:01] Adam: Well, in 10 years, if we got still these kind of problems, they’re just going to go straight up close these areas.
[0:38:01 – 0:38:03] Adam: You know, there’s parks out west.
[0:38:03 – 0:38:12] Adam: We like groove on groovers in the western camping scene and like kind of marvel at like how restricted and like insane that is.
[0:38:12 – 0:38:20] Adam: But we are looking at a situation where if they don’t do something and act quickly, we’re going to be looking at a situation where you’re in a lottery deal.
[0:38:20 – 0:38:21] Erik: Like going down the Grand Canyon.
[0:38:21 – 0:38:22] Erik: Exactly.
[0:38:22 – 0:38:28] Adam: In which we’re not complaining that, oh, I couldn’t get the choice permit that I wanted this year.
[0:38:29 – 0:38:32] Adam: I might get a permit in five years.
[0:38:32 – 0:38:36] Adam: That’s what you’re going to ultimately be looking at if they don’t do something drastic.
[0:38:36 – 0:38:39] Adam: So I applaud the action of extra rangers.
[0:38:40 – 0:38:41] Erik: Is that drastic, though?
[0:38:41 – 0:38:42] Adam: I don’t think it’s drastic enough.
[0:38:43 – 0:38:44] Adam: 21 versus 11?
[0:38:44 – 0:38:51] Adam: It’s ridiculous, and honestly, it’s a slap in the face, but it’s better than keeping it at 11.
[0:38:52 – 0:38:55] Erik: Again, it’s better than nothing, and it doesn’t hurt.
[0:38:55 – 0:39:03] Adam: You could put 100 Rangers in the field and have them out there cleaning things up and working on portages and helping people.
[0:39:04 – 0:39:08] Adam: But unfortunately, that money is all going to new drones or whatever.
[0:39:08 – 0:39:14] Adam: So we’re not going to spend that on health care or on improving our parks that really help people.
[0:39:15 – 0:39:16] Erik: I guess I… Yeah.
[0:39:17 – 0:39:17] Erik: So…
[0:39:17 – 0:39:29] Erik: There’s so many things happening with this that, you know, when you have a conversation along these lines and at, you know, this length, you kind of feel like you end up just having the same questions over and over again.
[0:39:29 – 0:39:34] Erik: But I think at the end of the day, I…
[0:39:34 – 0:39:36] Erik: It’s just confusing.
[0:39:36 – 0:39:40] Erik: Like, what are their… Like, where are the thoughts on this coming from?
[0:39:40 – 0:39:41] Adam: That’s by design, I think, also.
[0:39:41 – 0:39:42] Adam: Yeah.
[0:39:42 – 0:39:43] Erik: Yeah, it could be.
[0:39:43 – 0:39:45] Erik: I mean, yeah.
[0:39:46 – 0:39:48] Adam: I’m starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist, though, Eric.
[0:39:48 – 0:39:49] Erik: Yeah, I don’t know.
[0:39:49 – 0:39:54] Erik: Like I was going to say, I don’t know how much of that sentiment I necessarily like.
[0:39:54 – 0:39:57] Adam: I’m starting to sound a little bit like Sacco.
[0:39:57 – 0:39:59] Erik: Turns out I’m a little bit of a cynic.
[0:39:59 – 0:40:00] Erik: What do you know?
[0:40:00 – 0:40:05] Adam: Ever since I heard the song by Sacco, I’m starting to think that, you know, they is right.
[0:40:05 – 0:40:07] Erik: But I don’t know if they’re that smart either.
[0:40:07 – 0:40:08] Erik: I don’t think…
[0:40:08 – 0:40:09] Erik: I think it’s…
[0:40:09 – 0:40:14] Erik: I think it’s two tails of the snake and somewhere in between.
[0:40:14 – 0:40:19] Adam: Well, the problem is that the Forest Service isn’t actually the one making the decision, though.
[0:40:19 – 0:40:21] Adam: It’s the capital.
[0:40:22 – 0:40:22] Erik: The capital?
[0:40:23 – 0:40:23] Erik: Yeah.
[0:40:23 – 0:40:24] Erik: No.
[0:40:24 – 0:40:24] Erik: No.
[0:40:24 – 0:40:30] Adam: If you don’t think money is making all the shots in this country, you don’t even understand what’s happening.
[0:40:30 – 0:40:34] Adam: The Forest Service is just the socko of the money.
[0:40:34 – 0:40:34] Erik: I’m not getting into this.
[0:40:34 – 0:40:35] Erik: Why don’t they raise permit fees then?
[0:40:40 – 0:40:41] Adam: Well, they could.
[0:40:41 – 0:40:44] Adam: It wouldn’t really matter, though, because that revenue, like, that was the main thing.
[0:40:44 – 0:40:46] Adam: Like, oh, they’re cutting the permits?
[0:40:47 – 0:40:48] Adam: That means less revenue.
[0:40:48 – 0:40:52] Adam: And it’s not like that revenue is all going directly back into the Forest Service either.
[0:40:52 – 0:40:54] Adam: Let’s not pretend that’s the case.
[0:40:54 – 0:41:00] Erik: No, I’ve never fully thought that every dollar that I’m paying for a permit goes directly back into the boundary waters.
[0:41:00 – 0:41:01] Erik: It should go in.
[0:41:01 – 0:41:06] Erik: But it goes to the Forest Service, which manages the entire United States and everything that goes along with the National Forest System.
[0:41:06 – 0:41:13] Adam: There are certain things like a trout stamp and a ski pass, which most of that money actually goes directly back to the thing you’re paying for.
[0:41:13 – 0:41:14] Erik: Right into that trout’s pocket.
[0:41:15 – 0:41:18] Adam: Yeah, and into the corduroy and the fine groomed trail.
[0:41:20 – 0:41:24] Adam: But that is not the case with the Boundary Waters, and it should be.
[0:41:24 – 0:41:26] Adam: Maybe that is the whole point.
[0:41:27 – 0:41:35] Adam: The money that we are paying into this park, you and I, and anybody listening to this show, is not actually 100% going back to the park.
[0:41:35 – 0:41:35] Adam: No.
[0:41:35 – 0:41:39] Adam: Like it would with almost anything else or in a world that made any sense.
[0:41:39 – 0:41:41] Erik: Well, or maybe in another country that made no sense.
[0:41:41 – 0:41:45] Adam: I don’t know where they’re getting the money for these extra 10 rangers or whatever.
[0:41:46 – 0:41:48] Erik: I mean, it’s, what, 10 extra rangers?
[0:41:48 – 0:41:49] Erik: How much do they make?
[0:41:49 – 0:41:52] Erik: It’s like, what, maybe half of… That’s a good chunk of change.
[0:41:52 – 0:41:53] Adam: I was going to say, it’s probably like half a million.
[0:41:53 – 0:41:55] Adam: Compared to the amount of money coming in on the permits, it’s nothing.
[0:41:55 – 0:41:56] Erik: Yeah.
[0:41:56 – 0:41:58] Adam: And even if you cut the permits, it doesn’t make any sense.
[0:41:59 – 0:42:01] Adam: Like, they could have hired 100 new rangers.
[0:42:02 – 0:42:06] Adam: Even that wouldn’t be enough for the size of this park.
[0:42:06 – 0:42:09] Adam: I mean, it’s a million acres and another million up north.
[0:42:10 – 0:42:12] Erik: Well, they were in their park so much differently, though, too.
[0:42:12 – 0:42:18] Erik: Like, their permit fees are at least twice, if not four times as much, depending on the length of your trip.
[0:42:19 – 0:42:20] Adam: Maybe that’s the real question.
[0:42:20 – 0:42:22] Adam: Not west and east, but north and south.
[0:42:22 – 0:42:24] Erik: Well, we’ve already had that episode.
[0:42:25 – 0:42:25] SPEAKER_03: I know.
[0:42:25 – 0:42:26] Erik: That was a long time ago.
[0:42:26 – 0:42:27] Erik: We could probably revisit that.
[0:42:28 – 0:42:29] Adam: We are right now.
[0:42:29 – 0:42:36] Adam: I mean, that’s just the weird way that we all interpret wilderness and how to, like, manage it.
[0:42:36 – 0:42:36] Adam: Yeah.
[0:42:36 – 0:42:37] Adam: By we, I mean not us.
[0:42:37 – 0:42:38] Adam: Yeah.
[0:42:38 – 0:42:45] Adam: or anybody that actually cares about it because our opinions honestly don’t matter, and they’re just going to do whatever they want anyways.
[0:42:45 – 0:42:50] Adam: All we can do is deal with what they’re doing and try and adapt to that as best we can.
[0:42:51 – 0:42:52] Adam: It’s very depressing.
[0:42:52 – 0:42:54] Adam: What did you say the most depressing day of the year was?
[0:42:55 – 0:42:56] Adam: I’m feeling pretty depressed right now.
[0:42:56 – 0:42:57] Erik: January 19th.
[0:42:58 – 0:43:01] Erik: Well, it’s the third or fourth Monday in January.
[0:43:01 – 0:43:02] Erik: It’s referred to as Blue Monday.
[0:43:03 – 0:43:11] Erik: There’s a whole calculation that goes along to determine what the factors involved in Blue Monday.
[0:43:11 – 0:43:13] Erik: So I do not cry.
[0:43:14 – 0:43:22] Erik: W, which stands for weather, plus D minus D, which is debt minus monthly salary, times T, which is time since Christmas.
[0:43:24 – 0:43:26] Erik: What’s the little tiny guy that goes above it?
[0:43:26 – 0:43:27] Erik: What is that referred to as?
[0:43:28 – 0:43:28] Erik: Cosine.
[0:43:28 – 0:43:29] Erik: A cosine.
[0:43:30 – 0:43:33] Erik: Q, which is time since the failure of New Year’s resolutions.
[0:43:34 – 0:43:36] Erik: This is all divided by M. Joke’s on you, math.
[0:43:36 – 0:43:37] Adam: I didn’t say anything.
[0:43:37 – 0:43:44] Erik: which is low motivational levels, and N, which is the feeling of a need to take action.
[0:43:45 – 0:43:46] Adam: Oh.
[0:43:46 – 0:43:46] Erik: Mm-hmm.
[0:43:47 – 0:43:48] Erik: Pretty much sums it up.
[0:43:49 – 0:43:50] Adam: I feel a lot better now.
[0:43:50 – 0:43:51] Erik: Yeah, I guess.
[0:43:51 – 0:43:53] Erik: We’ve got Blue Monday behind us.
[0:43:54 – 0:44:04] Erik: Yeah, I guess in general, the whole thing is disappointing, reactionary, probably not going to make much of a difference at the end of the day.
[0:44:06 – 0:44:16] Erik: Keeping what I would say is the vast majority of people who are cognizant, respectful…
[0:44:18 – 0:44:26] Erik: Um, and just to say the same word again, aware of how the boundary waters, how a wilderness works, leave no trace ethics.
[0:44:27 – 0:44:32] Erik: It’s going to keep, I would say the vast majority of those people from getting a permit that wants them.
[0:44:33 – 0:44:35] Adam: I just never have had a problem getting a permit, though.
[0:44:35 – 0:44:37] Adam: I mean, you might not get the permit you want.
[0:44:38 – 0:44:43] Adam: I have literally never, ever, once in my life, been like, I want to go on a trip today.
[0:44:44 – 0:44:46] Adam: Oh, there’s not one permit available near me.
[0:44:47 – 0:44:48] Erik: Have you looked in the last two years, though?
[0:44:49 – 0:44:51] Adam: Yeah, I’ve never still once been…
[0:44:51 – 0:44:53] Adam: There’s a day where there’s zero permits available.
[0:44:54 – 0:44:54] Adam: I’ve not found it.
[0:44:54 – 0:44:59] Adam: And I guess I’ve not been looking like, hey, I want to go today.
[0:44:59 – 0:45:00] Erik: Yeah, well, that’s what I’m saying.
[0:45:00 – 0:45:01] Adam: I want to go next Tuesday.
[0:45:01 – 0:45:02] Erik: I’ve been following…
[0:45:02 – 0:45:06] Adam: Even in the middle of summer, I’ve not had a day where it’s like, there’s no permits.
[0:45:06 – 0:45:08] Adam: I know you’ve run into these days, but…
[0:45:08 – 0:45:14] Erik: There’s been more days in the last two years out of any that there has been weeks in…
[0:45:15 – 0:45:17] Erik: Especially if you’re looking for one in particular…
[0:45:18 – 0:45:24] Erik: But, yeah, I guess that’s the biggest thing is, yeah, if you’re 100% flexible, you can probably find a permit.
[0:45:24 – 0:45:26] Erik: But the problem is not everybody is.
[0:45:26 – 0:45:28] Erik: Not everybody lives an hour down the road from the Boundary Waters.
[0:45:29 – 0:45:32] Erik: I understand that.
[0:45:33 – 0:45:37] Erik: But reducing those permits is, I don’t really think, going to help.
[0:45:37 – 0:45:39] Erik: And I think in two years, who knows?
[0:45:40 – 0:45:49] Erik: But my feeling is in two years, things will relatively be back to things that we can do that we were used to doing two plus years ago.
[0:45:49 – 0:45:52] Erik: So there’s not going to be this like, well, I don’t know, hun.
[0:45:52 – 0:45:53] Erik: There’s nothing else to do.
[0:45:53 – 0:45:54] Erik: Everything’s closed.
[0:45:54 – 0:45:56] Erik: Let’s just go up to the Boundary Waters.
[0:45:56 – 0:46:02] Erik: So it’s like they took two years of a relatively standalone event.
[0:46:03 – 0:46:15] Erik: where the Boundary Waters got super leaned on as one of the only things you could do in the Midwest and made people who have been running businesses in the area for decades pay the price for it.
[0:46:16 – 0:46:19] Erik: I mean, I guess they can adjust it going forward again.
[0:46:20 – 0:46:22] Adam: The permits were fine for 50 years.
[0:46:23 – 0:46:29] Adam: Yeah, and they’re going to permit money is money, so they will eventually reopen that.
[0:46:30 – 0:46:39] Adam: I would assume this is political pressure and nonsense and that in two years, you know, we won’t even be worrying about this again, but…
[0:46:40 – 0:46:44] Erik: Is it just optics for a service trying to look like they’re doing something?
[0:46:44 – 0:46:52] Adam: I come from a background where I try and understand public relations, and I think this is what it is.
[0:46:53 – 0:46:56] Adam: They’re just trying to get ahead of it, put a good face on it.
[0:46:56 – 0:46:58] Adam: We’re doing something, even if they’re not.
[0:47:00 – 0:47:02] Adam: We’ve talked about this whole idea before on the show.
[0:47:02 – 0:47:11] Adam: This is optics, and in two years, you know, in episode 500, we won’t even remember this whole conversation.
[0:47:11 – 0:47:16] Adam: People will be texting into the tumble talks, and we’ll be like, I don’t know about that.
[0:47:17 – 0:47:18] Adam: Pew, pew, pew.
[0:47:18 – 0:47:19] Adam: Party horns for remembrance.
[0:47:20 – 0:47:22] Erik: Party horns for remembrance.
[0:47:23 – 0:47:24] Erik: Yeah, I guess.
[0:47:24 – 0:47:24] Adam: The olden times.
[0:47:25 – 0:47:26] Adam: Do, do, do, do.
[0:47:26 – 0:47:27] Adam: The olden times.
[0:47:28 – 0:47:49] Erik: close to 50 minutes on just kind of trying to make sense of it more than anything else i don’t know if i anyways go try a new route whatever if your main permit you can’t get your permit on permit day which is coming up that’s the main reason we’re also having this conversation go try a new permit honestly what’s the big deal yeah we’re gonna have a visit in morgan
[0:47:51 – 0:47:54] Adam: Morgan Lake, you can trust us never.
[0:47:55 – 0:47:56] Adam: No, don’t ever trust Morgan.
[0:47:56 – 0:47:58] Adam: We’re an S-rat lake.
[0:47:59 – 0:48:25] Adam: um yeah so think about it morgan lake this portage isn’t for you morgan lake it’s also again think again nice i like think again i mean it’s always open you gotta wonder sometimes i think it’s time for us to get to the tropical burn yeah the last two years though it’s not i think i feel like you’re gravely underestimating how hard it was to get a permit the last two years
[0:48:26 – 0:48:26] Adam: I probably am.
[0:48:27 – 0:48:28] Adam: I’m out of touch.
[0:48:28 – 0:48:30] Erik: Well, and I am too now.
[0:48:30 – 0:48:31] Erik: You got a big heart.
[0:48:31 – 0:48:31] Erik: Is that what you said?
[0:48:31 – 0:48:32] Adam: Yeah, I have a big heart.
[0:48:32 – 0:48:34] Erik: I’m out of touch and I got a big heart.
[0:48:36 – 0:48:39] Adam: Yeah, and I just want to love.
[0:48:39 – 0:48:40] Adam: I just want to love everyone.
[0:48:40 – 0:48:43] Adam: I don’t want to think ill of anyone either.
[0:48:44 – 0:48:49] Adam: So it’s hard for me to believe that the government would actually be trying to keep us from the wilderness.
[0:48:50 – 0:48:54] Erik: When it comes to BWCA permits and their changes, you are the Lenny from Of Mice and Men.
[0:48:57 – 0:48:57] Adam: Pete Stauber.
[0:48:58 – 0:48:58] Adam: He’s a great guy.
[0:48:59 – 0:49:00] Erik: You’re crushing the permit system, Adam.
[0:49:00 – 0:49:02] Erik: You’re loving it too hard.
[0:49:04 – 0:49:06] Adam: I’m going to pet this pretty old permit.
[0:49:06 – 0:49:07] Adam: You don’t have to pet it so hard.
[0:49:08 – 0:49:14] Adam: I’m going to keep this permit in my pocket all day and oil my hand up in a glove, Eric.
[0:49:14 – 0:49:16] Adam: I can get another one of these whenever I want.
[0:49:17 – 0:49:25] Adam: I’m going to go job at the lettuce factory and just buy my pretty old mouse a present, nice hat, felted hat from a boy.
[0:49:25 – 0:49:26] Adam: From a boy?
[0:49:26 – 0:49:27] Adam: My God.
[0:49:27 – 0:49:29] Erik: It’s a piece of paper that says you have a permit.
[0:49:29 – 0:49:30] Erik: It’s not your boy.
[0:49:31 – 0:49:32] Erik: He’s a boy.
[0:49:32 – 0:49:33] Erik: He’s a good boy.
[0:49:33 – 0:49:38] Adam: Next up on the show, we got a beautiful tropical burn.
[0:49:38 – 0:49:40] Adam: Double IPA is explained to me.
[0:49:40 – 0:49:43] Adam: The D-I-P-A means double.
[0:49:43 – 0:49:46] Erik: Well, I had the help of it being written on the other side.
[0:49:46 – 0:49:47] Adam: Oh, it does.
[0:49:48 – 0:49:48] Erik: It just says it.
[0:49:48 – 0:49:49] Adam: All right.
[0:49:49 – 0:49:50] Adam: You ready for the wishbone?
[0:49:51 – 0:49:52] Adam: One, two, three.
[0:49:52 – 0:49:52] Adam: Chicken bone.
[0:49:52 – 0:49:53] Adam: Oh, thank God.
[0:49:53 – 0:49:54] Adam: He’s got me today.
[0:49:54 – 0:49:55] Adam: Two and O.
[0:49:55 – 0:49:56] Adam: Is your chair higher than mine or something?
[0:49:56 – 0:49:57] Adam: What’s going on here?
[0:49:57 – 0:49:58] Adam: Yeah, I’m sitting on a pillow.
[0:49:58 – 0:49:58] Adam: Ridiculous.
[0:49:58 – 0:49:59] Adam: He’s got pillows.
[0:50:00 – 0:50:04] Erik: I still have a bit in my fire trucker.
[0:50:04 – 0:50:06] Erik: Oh, wait, they’re both fire truckers?
[0:50:06 – 0:50:07] Erik: They are both fire truckers.
[0:50:07 – 0:50:10] Erik: Oh, well, I still have some in my Iowa IPA.
[0:50:15 – 0:50:15] Erik: So, yeah, that’s that.
[0:50:15 – 0:50:17] Erik: Do you have any Jerry Springer final thoughts?
[0:50:17 – 0:50:19] Erik: Be good to each other or whatever?
[0:50:19 – 0:50:23] Erik: Lines before we pause and come back with the meat.
[0:50:25 – 0:50:29] Adam: Well, I would say that that was the meat, but we’re going to come back with even more meat.
[0:50:29 – 0:50:31] Adam: This is like a double cheeseburger from Culver’s.
[0:50:32 – 0:50:34] Adam: And you don’t want to stop there.
[0:50:34 – 0:50:39] Adam: No matter how many times you’ve been to Duluth, you’re going to want to stop and get yourself a double cheeseburger.
[0:50:39 – 0:50:40] Erik: Overrated.
[0:50:40 – 0:50:48] Adam: Take a break and go check the wind forecast, and we will be back with our next round of thoughts on the meat.
[0:50:48 – 0:50:51] Erik: We’re going to take a step back, see if we can get Dorothy up into the air.
[0:50:53 – 0:50:55] Adam: Wow, she’s flying, Eric.
[0:50:55 – 0:50:56] Erik: I knew it.
[0:51:06 – 0:51:09] Erik: Ladies and gentlemen, it’s time for The Meat.
[0:51:12 – 0:51:19] Erik: Well, Adam is convinced that the permit chat was the meat, so here’s more meat, I guess.
[0:51:19 – 0:51:21] Adam: No, the meat is the meat.
[0:51:21 – 0:51:22] Adam: Meat’s meat.
[0:51:22 – 0:51:25] Adam: Meat will always reveal itself as meat.
[0:51:25 – 0:51:28] Erik: Sometimes you just have to give it a little bit.
[0:51:29 – 0:51:34] Adam: I feel like we’re in Saudi Arabia right now.
[0:51:34 – 0:51:36] Erik: Yeah, these windows are being lashed.
[0:51:36 – 0:51:37] Erik: Snow sand up here.
[0:51:37 – 0:51:39] Erik: It sounds like sand, but it is in fact…
[0:51:42 – 0:51:42] Erik: Frozen rain?
[0:51:42 – 0:51:45] Adam: It’s precipitation.
[0:51:45 – 0:51:46] Adam: A.K.A.?
[0:51:46 – 0:51:46] Adam: Of a kind.
[0:51:47 – 0:51:47] Erik: Snow!
[0:51:47 – 0:51:51] Erik: Snow!
[0:51:51 – 0:51:54] Erik: This is a conversation that is going to be 100% our opinions.
[0:51:56 – 0:51:59] Adam: Yeah, I have no notes in front of me at this point.
[0:51:59 – 0:52:00] Adam: This is real.
[0:52:00 – 0:52:00] Erik: Yeah, this is…
[0:52:00 – 0:52:02] Erik: This is as real as it gets.
[0:52:02 – 0:52:03] Erik: This is as real as it gets.
[0:52:03 – 0:52:03] Erik: I have a…
[0:52:04 – 0:52:07] Adam: Especially when you’re drinking a tropical burn deeper.
[0:52:07 – 0:52:09] Erik: Worst cheese question mark?
[0:52:10 – 0:52:10] Erik: You got that out of the way.
[0:52:10 – 0:52:11] Erik: Cross that out.
[0:52:11 – 0:52:12] Erik: Nailed it.
[0:52:12 – 0:52:20] Erik: We’re going to talk… One of the, I would think, more common questions that I used to get…
[0:52:21 – 0:52:25] Erik: I love the phone calls I used to get at Clearwater where it was clearly the…
[0:52:28 – 0:52:31] Erik: I don’t like to throw around the term boomer as much anymore.
[0:52:31 – 0:52:32] Erik: I don’t know.
[0:52:32 – 0:52:34] Erik: It seems like too much of a blanket term.
[0:52:35 – 0:52:37] Erik: Everybody’s their individual selves.
[0:52:37 – 0:52:40] Erik: Just because you were born at a certain time shouldn’t define you.
[0:52:40 – 0:52:42] Erik: I think it does, though.
[0:52:42 – 0:52:47] Erik: You could get a sense of the kind of person that was like, I’m going to call an outfitter.
[0:52:48 – 0:52:49] Adam: I’m going to call… Not an individual, but…
[0:52:50 – 0:52:52] Erik: We are all part of our own era.
[0:52:52 – 0:53:00] Erik: I’m going to call a bunch of outfitters and make them sell themselves to me.
[0:53:01 – 0:53:02] Erik: Like, that’s a dying thing.
[0:53:03 – 0:53:04] Erik: Like, that doesn’t happen very much anymore.
[0:53:04 – 0:53:05] Erik: Like, honestly.
[0:53:05 – 0:53:07] Adam: People calling people on the phone?
[0:53:07 – 0:53:10] Erik: People, yeah, just, yeah, full stop.
[0:53:10 – 0:53:11] Adam: Oh, hello.
[0:53:11 – 0:53:12] Erik: Hello.
[0:53:12 – 0:53:12] Adam: What?
[0:53:14 – 0:53:23] Erik: No, people calling businesses a bunch of different ones and like shopping around to get like the feel of who you’re going to deal with and who you’re going to work with.
[0:53:24 – 0:53:27] Erik: And it probably doesn’t make any sense to do it all that much anymore.
[0:53:27 – 0:53:31] Erik: But if there is a time and a place to do it, it’s probably with something as…
[0:53:33 – 0:53:33] Erik: I don’t know.
[0:53:33 – 0:53:40] Erik: Intimate is probably too much of a word, but something that’s like you are going to be working with a very specific person.
[0:53:40 – 0:53:43] Adam: I think you should be intimate with your outfitter.
[0:53:43 – 0:53:44] Erik: Be intimate with your outfitter.
[0:53:45 – 0:53:46] Adam: Yeah, I would agree.
[0:53:46 – 0:53:50] Erik: It’s one of those questions that you could tell it was basically…
[0:53:52 – 0:53:56] Erik: What’s the difference between Ely and the Gunflint Trail?
[0:53:56 – 0:53:59] Erik: What’s the difference between the west side and the east side?
[0:53:59 – 0:54:01] Erik: Sell me on your side.
[0:54:01 – 0:54:02] Erik: What about the underbelly?
[0:54:03 – 0:54:05] Erik: What about the soft underbelly?
[0:54:05 – 0:54:05] Erik: Where does that come into play?
[0:54:05 – 0:54:07] Adam: Don’t even talk about the underbelly.
[0:54:07 – 0:54:09] Adam: What about Quetico?
[0:54:10 – 0:54:11] Adam: Don’t talk about the hat.
[0:54:11 – 0:54:12] Erik: The Boundary Waters hat.
[0:54:12 – 0:54:13] Erik: Everybody knows that.
[0:54:14 – 0:54:14] Adam: Yeah.
[0:54:14 – 0:54:16] Adam: What kind of a hat is it?
[0:54:17 – 0:54:20] Adam: I imagine it’s some sort of fur-lined hat.
[0:54:20 – 0:54:21] Adam: Oh, God.
[0:54:21 – 0:54:22] Erik: I am so glad you said that.
[0:54:22 – 0:54:27] Erik: I was exactly picturing the guys from Strange Brew, the floppy, furry hat.
[0:54:27 – 0:54:28] Erik: Yeah.
[0:54:28 – 0:54:29] Erik: The Mad Bomber hat.
[0:54:29 – 0:54:30] Adam: Yeah, that’s what I wear all winter.
[0:54:31 – 0:54:32] Adam: It’s nine months a year.
[0:54:33 – 0:54:34] Adam: I just wear it all winter.
[0:54:34 – 0:54:37] Erik: Even in the middle of July, Quetico is still a mad bomber hat to the Boundary Waters.
[0:54:37 – 0:54:38] Erik: Exactly.
[0:54:38 – 0:54:39] Adam: So what is the soft underbelly?
[0:54:39 – 0:54:41] Adam: Is it some sort of like short, short?
[0:54:42 – 0:54:43] Adam: The soft underbelly.
[0:54:43 – 0:54:44] Adam: Maybe it’s long underwear.
[0:54:45 – 0:54:47] Erik: In terms of like a clothing piece?
[0:54:47 – 0:54:47] Erik: Yeah.
[0:54:47 – 0:54:51] Adam: So the soft underbelly is the long underwear or maybe the slipper.
[0:54:52 – 0:54:53] Adam: The camp slipper?
[0:54:53 – 0:54:54] Adam: Yeah, a nice camp slipper.
[0:54:55 – 0:54:59] Adam: And then the west side is the wool pant.
[0:54:59 – 0:55:01] Adam: I would say the west side is the wool shirt.
[0:55:01 – 0:55:02] Erik: No, the west side is one sleeve.
[0:55:02 – 0:55:04] Adam: Because you’re lounging.
[0:55:04 – 0:55:04] Adam: You’re doing this.
[0:55:04 – 0:55:09] Erik: The one side is a wool Stu Osthoff jacket.
[0:55:10 – 0:55:39] Erik: black and red uh checkerboard what do they call that buffalo plaid sleeve and the west’s or the east side is hmm i would say the just straight skin yeah that’s what i was gonna say it’s the east side is the nude human body and the west side is a pendleton blanket oh wow full blanket yeah we’re not even talking about shirts anymore
[0:55:41 – 0:55:44] Adam: That might have gone too far, but I think it conveys the idea.
[0:55:44 – 0:55:53] Erik: I think it did go a little too far because I didn’t finish my original sentiment, which was answering questions on, basically, what’s the difference between the west side and the east side?
[0:55:53 – 0:55:55] Adam: Yeah, you’re not going to say that to somebody on the phone.
[0:55:55 – 0:55:56] Erik: But, no, yeah.
[0:55:57 – 0:56:00] Erik: I am the nude arm, dude.
[0:56:00 – 0:56:01] Adam: Hello?
[0:56:01 – 0:56:01] Adam: Hello?
[0:56:02 – 0:56:02] Adam: Hello?
[0:56:03 – 0:56:03] Adam: No.
[0:56:04 – 0:56:06] Adam: Not selling a lot of trips that way.
[0:56:06 – 0:56:11] Erik: I’m going to go with the jean outfitter on the west side.
[0:56:12 – 0:56:16] Adam: But yeah, outside of having to like… Leather vest outfitter of Karachi.
[0:56:16 – 0:56:17] Erik: Leather vest outfitters.
[0:56:18 – 0:56:19] Adam: Karachi, Minnesota.
[0:56:20 – 0:56:35] Erik: So yeah, it was a question that I used to have to answer a lot and it got a little muddled and I got a little confused sometimes because it would be answered in a way that I always thought was heartfelt and honest and legit.
[0:56:35 – 0:56:44] Erik: But at the end of the day, if you’re answering it on a phone that you answered in an Outfitters building as a business, you’re obviously trying to sell your side a little bit more.
[0:56:44 – 0:56:45] Adam: You should, yeah.
[0:56:45 – 0:56:50] Erik: And you always think that your side, your lake, your entry point, your business is the best.
[0:56:51 – 0:56:51] Adam: It is.
[0:56:52 – 0:56:52] Erik: And it is.
[0:56:53 – 0:57:00] Erik: But at the end of the day, second time that one got pulled out, becoming one of those statements, it’s kind of like it is what it is.
[0:57:01 – 0:57:02] Adam: It’s kind of a horse at peace, Eric.
[0:57:03 – 0:57:04] Erik: Yeah, kind of just an empty statement.
[0:57:04 – 0:57:07] Erik: Like, why’d you even open your mouth to say a sentence?
[0:57:07 – 0:57:09] Erik: Um… Um…
[0:57:09 – 0:57:10] Erik: It is what it is.
[0:57:12 – 0:57:19] Erik: At the end of the day, to sum up, really, you can look at it in a more objective way, I think.
[0:57:20 – 0:57:23] Erik: And there are noticeable differences between the west side and the east side.
[0:57:24 – 0:57:29] Erik: We’ve both paddled enough, I think, to be able to let some of our gut…
[0:57:30 – 0:57:31] Adam: I have portage now for sure.
[0:57:31 – 0:57:33] Erik: Let some of our guts do the talking.
[0:57:34 – 0:57:34] Erik: Yeah.
[0:57:35 – 0:57:37] Erik: We’re not trying to sell you on anything here.
[0:57:38 – 0:57:48] Erik: We just want you to be able to maybe take just a broad picture or a broad look at that map and get an idea.
[0:57:48 – 0:57:50] Erik: And you can do it on your own, too.
[0:57:50 – 0:57:53] Erik: There’s no experts involved here, really.
[0:57:53 – 0:57:59] Erik: It’s just experience that we’ve been to some of the different parts of the park to be able to get a different feel.
[0:58:00 – 0:58:00] Erik: And…
[0:58:02 – 0:58:15] Erik: When you were originally asked this by me or if you’ve ever thought about it in the past, like what is the first thing that comes to mind when it comes to differentiating and whether or not there is a line or not?
[0:58:15 – 0:58:16] Erik: Yeah.
[0:58:16 – 0:58:19] Erik: The differences between the west side and the east side.
[0:58:19 – 0:58:27] Adam: I just feel like the west side is a little bit more developed and the east side is a little bit more wild.
[0:58:28 – 0:58:30] Adam: I think that’s the easiest way to say it.
[0:58:30 – 0:58:31] Erik: What do you mean by developed?
[0:58:31 – 0:58:35] Erik: Like in the actual wilderness or what surrounds it?
[0:58:37 – 0:58:39] Adam: I just mean once you’re in the park.
[0:58:40 – 0:58:40] Erik: Okay.
[0:58:40 – 0:58:46] Adam: I’m not talking about what is around it because I’m not… Maybe there is a way to like…
[0:58:47 – 0:59:01] Adam: identify that but I guess just like once you’re in the park I feel like on the west side it’s a little easier getting around the portages aren’t as long or as tough and the landings aren’t as nasty
[0:59:03 – 0:59:32] Adam: in general you know this is a tough thing because we were talking about it earlier there’s 77 or 78 kinds of different permits you can get to get in entry points as you will um you know and so there’s a lot of different ways you can experience the boundary waters but in general i feel like the west side is the the lakes are closer the portages are the portage or they’re a little bit nicer
[0:59:33 – 0:59:35] Erik: Do you think the lakes are closer, though?
[0:59:35 – 0:59:40] Erik: I actually think there’s fewer lakes on the west side and there’s more rivers and more bog and just open forest.
[0:59:40 – 0:59:42] Adam: When I say lakes, I just mean water.
[0:59:42 – 0:59:43] Erik: Water, yeah.
[0:59:43 – 0:59:43] Erik: There’s larger…
[0:59:45 – 0:59:49] Erik: Larger lakes that are connected by more rivers, I think.
[0:59:51 – 0:59:58] Erik: And yeah, for sure, I think the biggest thing that I think of when it comes to a difference, the biggest difference in a lot of them, yeah, you can pick and choose.
[0:59:59 – 1:00:04] Erik: You could probably take a lake from the west side and convince me that it’s from the Vento.
[1:00:05 – 1:00:06] Erik: I believe that, yeah.
[1:00:06 – 1:00:08] Erik: And you can probably do it from the east to the west.
[1:00:08 – 1:00:09] Erik: I believe that too.
[1:00:09 – 1:00:11] Erik: There’s some sand beaches here on Frost Lake.
[1:00:12 – 1:00:14] Erik: You know, there’s examples that you can pull from both sides.
[1:00:14 – 1:00:15] Erik: It’s not clear cut.
[1:00:16 – 1:00:17] Erik: It’s a scale.
[1:00:18 – 1:00:22] Erik: But I think that the farther you go in either direction, it becomes more noticeable.
[1:00:22 – 1:00:24] Adam: Look at the topography of it.
[1:00:25 – 1:00:26] Adam: Yeah, that’s what I was going to say.
[1:00:26 – 1:00:26] Erik: Just look at a topo map.
[1:00:27 – 1:00:31] Erik: The biggest difference I feel like between the West and the East is the geology.
[1:00:33 – 1:00:48] Adam: in basically the rocks yeah there’s some of those lakes on the east side where like i can’t really see like a high point around me in any direction and that’s weird the west side you mean on the east side i think that’s really weird
[1:00:49 – 1:00:49] Erik: What do you mean?
[1:00:49 – 1:00:51] Erik: On the east side, you can’t see a high point?
[1:00:51 – 1:00:54] Adam: Say you’re on Swamp or Gaskin or something.
[1:00:54 – 1:00:55] Erik: Swamp or Swamper?
[1:00:56 – 1:00:56] Adam: Either.
[1:00:57 – 1:01:01] Adam: There’s some hills, but you’re kind of on the high country.
[1:01:01 – 1:01:07] Adam: On Swamp, especially Portage, Poplar, Bandedad.
[1:01:08 – 1:01:12] Adam: Those high country lakes and there’s like, there’s no, you’re on the top of the hill.
[1:01:12 – 1:01:12] Erik: Yeah.
[1:01:13 – 1:01:20] Adam: But, and you get that, you get that a lot on the west side where it’s like, there’s not like a crazy amount of like variation on the landscape.
[1:01:21 – 1:01:21] Adam: Right.
[1:01:21 – 1:01:29] Adam: But for the most part on the Bento, you get that crazy, like there’s a huge hill on that side of the lake or the south, you know, the south shore is a massive boulder.
[1:01:29 – 1:01:30] Adam: Yeah.
[1:01:30 – 1:01:30] Erik: Yeah.
[1:01:31 – 1:01:35] Adam: But you don’t need me or Eric to tell you that.
[1:01:36 – 1:01:40] Erik: No, you could look at a map and easily say that and easily see that.
[1:01:40 – 1:01:41] Adam: But I think, yeah, it’s…
[1:01:41 – 1:01:47] Adam: It’s wild variations and like the Misquah Hills are the Misquah Hills for a reason.
[1:01:47 – 1:01:52] Erik: Yeah, no, there’s a huge difference when it comes to, I think…
[1:01:53 – 1:01:56] Adam: And that affects the lakes and the portages themselves.
[1:01:56 – 1:01:57] Erik: Yeah, day to day.
[1:01:57 – 1:02:04] Erik: I mean, really, I think it is geology because that’s what makes the lakes… And that’s not necessarily better.
[1:02:04 – 1:02:07] Erik: No, one isn’t inherently better than the other at all.
[1:02:08 – 1:02:13] Erik: I mean, what you’re looking for on a trip is entirely up to you.
[1:02:13 – 1:02:14] Erik: And sometimes…
[1:02:16 – 1:02:28] Erik: Some of those rockier, more rugged eastern side portages allow for those massive 200, 300 foot exposed cliffs.
[1:02:29 – 1:02:33] Erik: But also, yeah, you’re not going to get that nice soft landing.
[1:02:33 – 1:02:35] Erik: You’re going to rough up a canoe a little bit more.
[1:02:36 – 1:02:39] Erik: Portage landings, portages in general are going to be quite a bit harder.
[1:02:40 – 1:02:43] Erik: Some of those portages on the west side, I mean, you don’t even notice them.
[1:02:43 – 1:02:46] Erik: They’re just sand into a…
[1:02:48 – 1:02:49] Erik: Sand to sand.
[1:02:49 – 1:02:50] Erik: Sand to sand.
[1:02:50 – 1:02:55] Erik: Sand landing into a dirt rut into a sand landing.
[1:02:56 – 1:03:00] Adam: I do believe the boundary waters themselves got started over by Ely.
[1:03:01 – 1:03:05] Adam: That was the first spot where they probably developed the canoe and were like, this is the way to get around.
[1:03:05 – 1:03:07] Erik: Yeah, this makes the most sense.
[1:03:07 – 1:03:09] Adam: And then they kind of annexed the east side in.
[1:03:09 – 1:03:18] Adam: They’re like, well, we can make it all the way to the big lake if we kind of cruise through these long, weirdo lakes and kind of deal with the weird portages over there.
[1:03:19 – 1:03:24] Adam: But the heart of it is the Quetico and the west side for me.
[1:03:25 – 1:03:29] Adam: That’s the, as Sigurd would say, the canoe country.
[1:03:29 – 1:03:35] Adam: I would say the Vento is kind of in there by association, and we’re lucky to have it.
[1:03:36 – 1:03:44] Adam: It didn’t get sold out to the motorboat crowd because that easily, with the big lakes, deep lakes, that easily all could have been sold off to the motorboat crowd.
[1:03:46 – 1:03:47] Adam: We’re lucky it didn’t.
[1:03:47 – 1:03:52] Adam: So I’m happy to have it here, and that’s how I eventually found the place.
[1:03:53 – 1:03:59] Adam: So it does have a dear place to my heart, Eric, but I think the Boundary Waters themselves is the west side.
[1:04:00 – 1:04:04] Erik: I think at the end of the day, again, there it is.
[1:04:04 – 1:04:15] Erik: Yeah, the heart of the park, the mass, if you’re looking at it on the map, is kind of the perfect mix of what both sides have to offer.
[1:04:15 – 1:04:18] Erik: And then if you look, there’s the two fragmented sections.
[1:04:18 – 1:04:24] Erik: There’s kind of that trout lake, little Indian Sioux, big river section on the west side.
[1:04:25 – 1:04:39] Erik: That is as close as you’re going to find to an opposite as to what the Vento unit, which is essentially the other end of the Bajau waters on the east side that has been fragmented off.
[1:04:40 – 1:04:48] Erik: Everything in between is kind of a general mix, more or less, that you slowly, you know, it would be like a spectrum.
[1:04:49 – 1:04:49] Erik: Yeah, it is.
[1:04:49 – 1:04:54] Erik: In the middle, you kind of see it mixing more than anywhere else.
[1:04:54 – 1:04:56] Erik: And then it starts fading out.
[1:04:56 – 1:05:03] Erik: Fewer sand, beaches, fewer easier portages, more hills as you move from west to east.
[1:05:05 – 1:05:08] Erik: With that whole soft underbelly just being a mystery the whole time.
[1:05:12 – 1:05:12] Adam: Duck tales.
[1:05:13 – 1:05:25] Erik: Yeah, so I think a lot of times I also see there’s a difference between when people are planning their trips, like drive time to get to some of these places.
[1:05:25 – 1:05:27] Erik: I think it’s, again, a horse apiece.
[1:05:27 – 1:05:30] Adam: It is a horse apiece, as they say in Kiwani.
[1:05:30 – 1:05:31] Erik: Kiwani.
[1:05:31 – 1:05:35] Erik: I’ve not talked to anybody on the phone in…
[1:05:37 – 1:05:41] Erik: Since August of 2021.
[1:05:41 – 1:05:42] Erik: What year is it?
[1:05:42 – 1:05:43] Adam: What a blessing.
[1:05:43 – 1:05:43] Erik: What a blessing.
[1:05:43 – 1:05:44] Erik: I know.
[1:05:44 – 1:05:44] Erik: It is actually kind of good.
[1:05:45 – 1:05:47] Erik: But that was a common question.
[1:05:47 – 1:05:50] Erik: Like, well, it seems like it takes longer to get up to Gunflint, get over to Grand Marais.
[1:05:51 – 1:05:52] Erik: From St. Paul.
[1:05:52 – 1:05:53] Adam: It’s worth it.
[1:05:53 – 1:05:55] Erik: It’s three hours and 45 minutes to Ely.
[1:05:55 – 1:05:58] Erik: And it’s four hours and 10 minutes to Grand Marais.
[1:05:59 – 1:06:02] Adam: You know, you pay for what you get for.
[1:06:02 – 1:06:04] Erik: And neither are… You get what you pay for.
[1:06:04 – 1:06:05] Erik: You get what you pay for.
[1:06:05 – 1:06:10] Erik: But neither are like… Once you’re in Ely, you’re not like, all right, the boundary waters are right there.
[1:06:10 – 1:06:12] Erik: Same with Grand Marais.
[1:06:12 – 1:06:18] Erik: Those are both jumping off points and you still have to drive, in some cases, probably farther…
[1:06:19 – 1:06:22] Erik: out of Ely to get up to some of those entry points up the echo trail.
[1:06:23 – 1:06:25] Erik: It’s all far, you know, if you’re going that far, who cares?
[1:06:26 – 1:06:26] Erik: Well, right.
[1:06:26 – 1:06:29] Erik: But that is a common concern.
[1:06:29 – 1:06:29] Erik: Like, well, it’s closer.
[1:06:30 – 1:06:35] Erik: I can be, I can be in like one in four hours versus sag, which is five.
[1:06:36 – 1:06:39] Erik: But like, yeah, really at the end of the day, it’s an hour, you know?
[1:06:40 – 1:06:43] Adam: So in that sense, it is, it truly is.
[1:06:43 – 1:06:46] Adam: Oh, this is the perfect use of it’s a horse a piece.
[1:06:46 – 1:06:48] Erik: Is that the title of the episode?
[1:06:48 – 1:06:49] Adam: Yeah, I think so.
[1:06:49 – 1:06:53] Erik: Or is it just BWCA East versus West to really get the Google algorithm tickled?
[1:06:54 – 1:06:54] Adam: You know us.
[1:06:55 – 1:06:57] Adam: We love to tickle the algorithm.
[1:06:57 – 1:07:00] Erik: A couple of algorithm ticklers over there at Tumble Home.
[1:07:00 – 1:07:05] Adam: An independent podcast that is also playing Bezos like a fiddle.
[1:07:05 – 1:07:06] Erik: Here’s a question for you.
[1:07:06 – 1:07:12] Erik: The last time the census was… Well, we have had our last census, but they’re still counting, I guess.
[1:07:13 – 1:07:16] Erik: The last actual census is 12 years old at this point.
[1:07:17 – 1:07:18] Erik: Population of Ely in 2010 was 3460.
[1:07:18 – 1:07:19] Erik: You think when this next…
[1:07:22 – 1:07:46] Adam: census comes out that’s going to be larger or smaller i’m gonna say larger slightly slightly larger yeah like 36 50 maybe 200 here we go taking bets uh gram rate 1351 smaller or larger and also say definitely larger but definitely a couple hundred maybe uh 1650
[1:07:49 – 1:07:50] Erik: Okay, interesting.
[1:07:50 – 1:07:55] Adam: I just feel like there’s been a lot of people moving up north, and rightly so.
[1:07:55 – 1:07:56] Adam: Yeah, there has been.
[1:07:56 – 1:07:56] Erik: I’ve been one of them.
[1:07:57 – 1:07:58] Erik: Do you…
[1:08:00 – 1:08:03] Erik: Would you have any thoughts on differences versus…
[1:08:03 – 1:08:06] Erik: I know we’re talking Boundary Waters, and we’ve kind of said a lot about it already.
[1:08:07 – 1:08:14] Erik: But when you think about the Boundary Waters, East, West, those are the two cities that are generally associated with them.
[1:08:15 – 1:08:17] Erik: And would that ever make a difference to you?
[1:08:17 – 1:08:21] Erik: It’s hard to look at that when you live, obviously, on one side.
[1:08:22 – 1:08:26] Erik: But I know when growing up, myself personally, it was all…
[1:08:26 – 1:08:28] Erik: Bouncy Waters equaled Ely.
[1:08:29 – 1:08:31] Erik: Like that word was the Bouncy Waters.
[1:08:32 – 1:08:36] Erik: And then even when I was getting a little bit older and I started doing research on my own where…
[1:08:37 – 1:08:37] Erik: Remember this?
[1:08:38 – 1:08:39] Erik: This is the thing that used to happen.
[1:08:39 – 1:08:41] Erik: You would send…
[1:08:42 – 1:08:52] Erik: uh, cards, like you would fill out a little like interest card thing from like a, uh, board of, uh, tourism board.
[1:08:52 – 1:08:53] Erik: It’s like a chamber of commerce.
[1:08:53 – 1:08:55] Erik: Chamber of commerce is the word I’m looking for.
[1:08:55 – 1:08:55] Erik: Thank you.
[1:08:56 – 1:08:57] Erik: And you would just mail that back.
[1:08:57 – 1:09:02] Erik: And then like two weeks later, your mailbox would just be stuffed with catalogs.
[1:09:03 – 1:09:03] Erik: Yeah.
[1:09:03 – 1:09:07] Erik: And that’s when I finally learned, like I got one that just said like it had the Gunflint trail on it.
[1:09:08 – 1:09:08] Erik: Yeah.
[1:09:08 – 1:09:10] Erik: And there was something about it that was just like, wow.
[1:09:10 – 1:09:13] Adam: Gunflint Trail just sounds so much better.
[1:09:13 – 1:09:14] Erik: It’s the best sounding thing ever.
[1:09:14 – 1:09:19] Adam: Unfortunately, humans don’t always make the best decisions based on the facts.
[1:09:20 – 1:09:22] Adam: Sometimes they just go with the best artwork or the best scheme.
[1:09:22 – 1:09:24] Erik: Ooh, Gunflint Trail.
[1:09:24 – 1:09:26] Adam: Gunflint Trail sounds so rugged.
[1:09:26 – 1:09:26] Erik: It does.
[1:09:26 – 1:09:28] Erik: It sounds way more, especially, I don’t know.
[1:09:28 – 1:09:31] Adam: You get to go up to the North Shore, which is also a bonus.
[1:09:31 – 1:09:31] Erik: Yeah.
[1:09:32 – 1:09:33] Erik: Yeah, that’s the other thing, too.
[1:09:33 – 1:09:42] Erik: Like, depending on what kind of a trip you’re looking to put together, you’re just shooting up 35 and then, like, wheeling off in Cloquet.
[1:09:43 – 1:09:44] Erik: You don’t even get to go to Duluth.
[1:09:44 – 1:09:47] Erik: You don’t even get to see the Big Lake if you’re taking the fast way to Duluth.
[1:09:47 – 1:09:48] Adam: Beautiful country.
[1:09:48 – 1:09:51] Adam: Landlocked, though.
[1:09:52 – 1:09:53] Adam: But, yeah, I mean.
[1:09:53 – 1:09:55] Adam: Not really, though, actually, if you don’t, you know.
[1:09:55 – 1:09:59] Adam: Zizou never learned to portage, unfortunately.
[1:09:59 – 1:10:00] Erik: Not as far as we know.
[1:10:01 – 1:10:08] Erik: I’m not sure what I was trying to say there, but I think both towns have their benefits.
[1:10:10 – 1:10:16] Erik: And they are both, I think, arguably just about as far away from the majority of entry points.
[1:10:16 – 1:10:21] Adam: Yeah, mostly calling out that people think it’s easier to get to Ely than Grand Marais.
[1:10:22 – 1:10:22] Adam: Well…
[1:10:22 – 1:10:23] Erik: Like two parts.
[1:10:23 – 1:10:24] Adam: Not really the case.
[1:10:25 – 1:10:25] Erik: No, I think so.
[1:10:25 – 1:10:26] Erik: Yeah, totally.
[1:10:26 – 1:10:29] Erik: But it seems like people think, first of all, it’s easier to get to Ely.
[1:10:30 – 1:10:33] Erik: And then second of all, once you’re in Ely, you’re in the Boundary Waters.
[1:10:34 – 1:10:34] Erik: No.
[1:10:34 – 1:10:36] Erik: But like you still need to drive in either direction.
[1:10:36 – 1:10:44] Erik: Like I think maybe there’s some entry points like just up the road out of like Crabb and Cummings, which are kind of close.
[1:10:44 – 1:10:48] Adam: Well, you can, you know, you can’t really paddle to Grand Marais.
[1:10:49 – 1:10:50] Adam: I mean, you can’t.
[1:10:50 – 1:10:51] Adam: That would be insane.
[1:10:51 – 1:10:55] Adam: But you have personally paddled into Ely.
[1:10:55 – 1:10:59] Erik: You can paddle directly into Ely, which does make it a little bit more connected.
[1:11:00 – 1:11:03] Adam: You can go paddle right to Monk’s House and get a new hatchet if you wanted.
[1:11:04 – 1:11:07] Adam: But you really can’t paddle to Monk’s House in Grand Marais.
[1:11:08 – 1:11:09] Erik: No, I don’t even know.
[1:11:09 – 1:11:13] Adam: Unless you’re going to brave the Gitche Gumee or whatever, which you should not.
[1:11:13 – 1:11:18] Erik: Yeah, you’d have to run the Brule River or something.
[1:11:19 – 1:11:21] Adam: No, you just take the Grand Portage and then paddle the shore.
[1:11:22 – 1:11:22] Erik: Yeah, or that.
[1:11:23 – 1:11:28] Erik: But I’m thinking of something that actually gets you directly close without having to paddle.
[1:11:28 – 1:11:33] Adam: Do you think somebody has actually done this where they’ve done the Grand Portage and then paddled the shore all the way down to Grand Marais?
[1:11:34 – 1:11:35] Erik: Oh, I’m sure, yeah.
[1:11:35 – 1:11:36] Adam: This has to have happened.
[1:11:37 – 1:11:37] Erik: Yeah.
[1:11:38 – 1:11:40] Erik: Vice versa, I know for sure.
[1:11:40 – 1:11:42] Erik: Grand Marais up to the Grand Portage.
[1:11:42 – 1:11:42] Adam: Yeah.
[1:11:43 – 1:11:43] Adam: Yeah.
[1:11:45 – 1:11:47] Erik: I also feel like the west side is more motorized.
[1:11:48 – 1:11:52] Erik: Like the lakes over there have more motor allowances.
[1:11:52 – 1:12:00] Adam: Yeah, you think about that, especially this time of year when it’s like, okay, lake trout’s open, but only for lakes entirely within the boundary waters.
[1:12:01 – 1:12:05] Adam: And that’s like five lakes that you can really think about that are like for sure.
[1:12:05 – 1:12:07] Adam: Like does border lakes count?
[1:12:07 – 1:12:07] Adam: No.
[1:12:08 – 1:12:08] Erik: No.
[1:12:08 – 1:12:10] Adam: They even touch the border.
[1:12:10 – 1:12:10] Erik: They’re out.
[1:12:11 – 1:12:12] Erik: That’s crazy.
[1:12:12 – 1:12:13] Erik: So you can’t go and fish rows.
[1:12:14 – 1:12:34] Erik: right but you can fish duncan and partridge yep yep yep early in the year and then what west pike yeah west pike’s in ram yeah ram’s not an easy one to get to but yeah uh yeah so you’re kind of limited on like hot trout lakes that you can get to
[1:12:35 – 1:12:35] Erik: That’s the other thing.
[1:12:35 – 1:12:45] Erik: I think fishing-wise, it feels like if you’re looking for a specific species, based on what we’ve already set up to this point, it stands to reason.
[1:12:47 – 1:12:48] Erik: Geology based.
[1:12:48 – 1:12:48] Adam: Yeah.
[1:12:49 – 1:12:53] Erik: Rockier, deeper, not as bog stained.
[1:12:54 – 1:13:01] Erik: Eastern lakes are going to allow for more native trout habitat, more native species in general.
[1:13:03 – 1:13:11] Erik: Not again that that’s a good or a bad thing, but if that’s what you’re looking for, you’re definitely going to find more lake trout and trout based lakes on the east side.
[1:13:11 – 1:13:15] Erik: Not to say that there aren’t any on the west, but I feel like west side, I just think like…
[1:13:16 – 1:13:29] Erik: When I picture a summer day on a Boundary Waters Lake on the west side of the park, I picture bogs, winding rivers, grasses and reeds, lily pads.
[1:13:29 – 1:13:31] Adam: Yeah, and these are beautiful things.
[1:13:31 – 1:13:37] Erik: Big white and red pines and those campsites that we’ve discussed in the past that are…
[1:13:38 – 1:13:43] Erik: more man-created, but also so iconic and Sigurd-esque.
[1:13:43 – 1:13:50] Erik: Just those lofty, needly, red pine sap factories.
[1:13:50 – 1:13:53] Erik: Those are campsites that I picture on Lac La Croix.
[1:13:55 – 1:13:57] Erik: They can almost smell them.
[1:13:58 – 1:14:03] Erik: But then the east side, yeah, it’s more jagged.
[1:14:03 – 1:14:04] Erik: It’s more coarse.
[1:14:06 – 1:14:07] Adam: And that comes with
[1:14:07 – 1:14:12] Adam: And you get these lakes where it’s like you’re half in the boundary waters, half in, half out.
[1:14:12 – 1:14:12] Erik: Half in?
[1:14:13 – 1:14:13] Erik: Half in.
[1:14:13 – 1:14:14] Adam: Half in.
[1:14:14 – 1:14:15] Adam: 100% in.
[1:14:15 – 1:14:16] Adam: Can’t get out.
[1:14:16 – 1:14:17] Adam: We never can leave.
[1:14:17 – 1:14:18] Adam: Which part’s in?
[1:14:19 – 1:14:23] Adam: You’re always here in the park with us, and we are your friends.
[1:14:23 – 1:14:24] Erik: But yeah, I don’t know.
[1:14:24 – 1:14:34] Erik: Again, all opinion, but it feels like east side, you’ve got sag, a tiny part of seagull, clear water.
[1:14:35 – 1:14:37] Adam: Let’s feel like the east side is the underdog.
[1:14:37 – 1:14:39] Erik: Those are kind of motorized.
[1:14:39 – 1:14:39] Erik: Maybe.
[1:14:39 – 1:14:41] Adam: And it’s like a third of the Boundary Waters.
[1:14:42 – 1:14:47] Adam: Whereas I feel like the west side is the bigger part and the more popular part of the Boundary Waters.
[1:14:48 – 1:14:49] Erik: The mitochondria of the Boundary Waters?
[1:14:49 – 1:14:51] Adam: And it’s also connected to the
[1:14:52 – 1:14:53] Adam: To the Quetico.
[1:14:54 – 1:15:03] Erik: Which I think is maybe, to go back to the permit issue, maybe why those fall and moose permits didn’t get affected as much because of…
[1:15:03 – 1:15:04] Adam: Which is because of…
[1:15:05 – 1:15:05] Erik: The fires.
[1:15:06 – 1:15:06] Erik: Money.
[1:15:06 – 1:15:08] Adam: No, not fires, Eric.
[1:15:08 – 1:15:09] Adam: It’s the money.
[1:15:09 – 1:15:12] Erik: Well, what money is there in that, though?
[1:15:13 – 1:15:18] Erik: Is it because they’re sending more groups just through those lakes to immediately go into Quetico then?
[1:15:18 – 1:15:23] Erik: They still have to pay for the permits, but they’re not taking up campsites in the Boundary Waters.
[1:15:23 – 1:15:24] Erik: Exactly.
[1:15:24 – 1:15:28] Adam: And permit fees on our ABCs.
[1:15:29 – 1:15:37] Erik: Well, you think there’s a cooperation or any kind of a conversation happening between the U.S. Forest Service and the Ministry of National Resources in Ontario?
[1:15:37 – 1:15:37] Erik: No.
[1:15:38 – 1:15:51] Erik: No, but the queen herself definitely is calling him up and being like, boys, you got to collect those permits for the crown and for my cookies.
[1:15:52 – 1:15:53] Adam: That was pretty good.
[1:15:53 – 1:15:55] Adam: Actually, it was not very good.
[1:15:56 – 1:15:56] Erik: Okay.
[1:15:59 – 1:15:59] Adam: God bless the queen.
[1:16:00 – 1:16:01] Erik: God bless the queen.
[1:16:03 – 1:16:04] Erik: So, yeah, I don’t know.
[1:16:06 – 1:16:07] Erik: If you had to…
[1:16:09 – 1:16:09] Erik: At the end of the day.
[1:16:10 – 1:16:11] Adam: A horse apiece.
[1:16:12 – 1:16:13] Erik: Because of the fires.
[1:16:14 – 1:16:15] Erik: It is what it is.
[1:16:15 – 1:16:17] Adam: Kudos to you.
[1:16:17 – 1:16:18] Adam: Kudos to you.
[1:16:23 – 1:16:27] Erik: Choose east or west’s last trip ever.
[1:16:29 – 1:16:33] Erik: I don’t need you to be specific, but just one side or the other.
[1:16:33 – 1:16:35] Adam: I’ll take a North Fowl permit.
[1:16:35 – 1:16:35] Erik: North Fowl.
[1:16:35 – 1:16:37] Erik: I’m surprised they didn’t just get rid of that one.
[1:16:37 – 1:16:38] Adam: No, I want that one.
[1:16:39 – 1:16:40] Adam: They might have.
[1:16:40 – 1:16:41] Adam: Actually, they might have gotten rid of it.
[1:16:42 – 1:16:43] Erik: Not in my list here.
[1:16:43 – 1:16:43] Adam: Oh, good.
[1:16:43 – 1:16:44] Adam: It’s still around.
[1:16:44 – 1:16:45] Adam: I love the North Fowl permit.
[1:16:45 – 1:16:46] Adam: That’s the one I want.
[1:16:47 – 1:16:50] Erik: That one was always the hardest to try and explain to people.
[1:16:51 – 1:16:52] Adam: Well, it’s always available.
[1:16:52 – 1:16:53] Erik: Wait, what?
[1:16:54 – 1:16:54] Erik: I got to do what?
[1:16:55 – 1:16:57] Erik: No, you had to get to Moose on your first day.
[1:16:57 – 1:16:58] Erik: But it’s a North Fowl permit.
[1:16:59 – 1:17:02] Erik: Now you literally have to make it like 10 miles on your first day.
[1:17:02 – 1:17:04] Erik: You’ve got to portage five times.
[1:17:05 – 1:17:06] Adam: Survive the rice field.
[1:17:06 – 1:17:07] Erik: Survive the rice field.
[1:17:08 – 1:17:10] Erik: Hope you find the portage landing if it’s August.
[1:17:10 – 1:17:11] Erik: God forbid.
[1:17:11 – 1:17:11] Erik: Bring a compass.
[1:17:12 – 1:17:14] Erik: God help you, bring a compass.
[1:17:14 – 1:17:16] Erik: You think you’re going to get off Royal Lake without a compass?
[1:17:16 – 1:17:17] Erik: Good luck.
[1:17:17 – 1:17:18] Adam: Or North Fowl.
[1:17:18 – 1:17:20]